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KMacLEOD323: Hi, just lurking tonight... a friend of mine, not on AOL would love to know what this chat will be about.

HOST WPLC Danie: Hello Liz. There is a friend of mine she just started her own e-publishing, it's under Yoni if you are interested in looking at her website

Eadelisi: Sure, what is it?

HOST WPLC Danie: Okay I got it http://www.romancewritersonline.com/index.htm

Eadelisi: Hi. I actually made it early! Do I get a gold star? Rosa asked me to talk about small publishers, so I'll do my best and will of course answer any questions to the best of my ability. I've been published by a number of small publishers, so I guess that gives me a bit of experience. In deciding if you want to submit to a small publisher. I think first you need to figure out what the pros and cons are of a small publisher, and a large publisher. There are obvious benefits to a large publisher-- an advance, more sales, your book in bookstores.

PlayWrite13: Here I go again. Last July a novel of mine was published in India...I retained world and ancillary rights. The book is a major hit in the far east. What would you suggest how to entice a stateside publisher? Well it is in young adult sections on Long Island libraries but young and older readers have enjoyed the book.

Eadelisi: Well, the fact that it has been published somewhere can be a benefit, as it has already passed some editor's test for quality.

Braguine: Play, send queries to agents, they love pubbed authors

Eadelisi: As to getting a US publisher, it depends on the book, what type of book it is. You need to choose a publisher suited to the story, and if you don't have an agent, then you need to choose a publisher that will accept unagented submissions. You can get a copy of Writer's Market for 2003, or check in the library for a copy, it will help you find the right publishers to target.

PlayWrite13: I own the writer's market.

BrownDvs: Sounds good Eadelisi

Eadelisi: Then check it for publishers who publish YA novels, who accept unagented submissions, and go for it!

PlayWrite13: Do I send them a copy of the book but would a first chapter suffice?

Eadelisi: Be sure to mention the rights you retain and those you've sold, so they know up front. The market book should tell you whether they want a query first, or a cover letter and partial, but I wouldn't send them the book unless/until they ask.

PlayWrite13: good advice...thank you so much. Also one more thing the reviews from India and the SAARC countries have been sensational...send them?

Eadelisi: My pleasure. Sure, PlayWrite, send a few clips along with your query. Now, back to small vs. large publishers-- a large publisher will probably earn you more money and sales. The down side of a large publisher includes: you probably all know of the response time for big publishers--they can take up to 2 years or more to respond to your submission. You may have a more distant relationship with your editor than you'd like. You may have your title changed. You have no control over the cover art or back cover blurb. And your book will be available for a short time, sometimes only weeks or months, before it is off the shelves. A large publisher will grab all the rights, if they can get away with it, even rights they don't plan to use. Now on to small publishers. The disadvantages are obvious: you earn less money, and you sell fewer copies. The advantages include: you have more control over your title, cover art, blurb, marketing strategies, etc. You will probably have a closer relationship with your editor. Your submission will be read and ruled on in weeks or perhaps a few months, rather than 18 months - 2 years. Your book is likely to be available for 1-3 years or more, rather than weeks or months. A small publisher is unlikely to take any rights they don't plan to use. Most small publishers are happy to look at unagented submissions. So in deciding who to submit to, you have to weigh all those factors and determine which are most important to you.

Dancingcloud42: Why do you say the larger publishers only have your books on the shelves for such a short period? I'm speaking of genre books rather than mainstream. They tend to have a relatively short shelf life, though sometimes they can still be ordered for a longer period of time, even if they've been removed from the shelves. Especially romances--they tend to disappear after a month or so.

BrownDvs: Are there any large publishers possessed of some of the finer qualities of the smaller publishers at all?

Eadelisi: I can't say for sure as I haven't worked directly with any large publishers, but it's been my impression that while you might find a particular editor you love and whom you enjoy working with, in general I'd have to say--no. But that's just my impression from talking to other authors, as I said, I haven't worked directly with them.

Dancingcloud42: What do you consider mainstream?

HOST WPLC Rosa: unless you are Nora Roberts, Stephen King, the large publishers don't have those qualities.

Eadelisi: Well, mainstream is a bit hard to define, but usually the stories are focused more on emotional growth rather than on external plot complications. They are perhaps more likely to have an unhappy ending, at least much more likely than genre books. A lot of the focus of a mainstream book is inward. Does that help? Suppose you've decided you want to look for a small publisher. How do you go about it? Well, some of them will be listed in books like Writer's Market, but a lot of the newer ones, and the e-publishers or Print On Demand publishers, won't. So that's when you have to get online. There have been a number of publishers that have come and gone in the past five years or so, and their disappearance isn't necessarily related to the quality of the books they put out. Still, that's one way to check out a publisher-- order one or two of their books. With e-books, you can do so rather cheaply. Read the books. Are the stories good? Are they well edited? Do you like the cover art...the format? Don't submit to a place that puts out books you don't like.

Dancingcloud42: You just answered more than one question and shed a lot of light for me just now.

Eadelisi: Oh, that's good! Glad to hear it. Most online publishers will have a sample contract posted on their website: read it! They are easy to understand and you'll see clearly what you'd be in for, should you decide to go with that publisher.

Sryope2: Recently I heard about an author who I think is pretty brilliant and was offered NO advance on a three book deal from a small publisher is that normal?

Eadelisi: Yes. Most small publishers don't offer advances. However, most of them offer a much more generous royalty percentage than a large publisher.

Sryope2: What is the benefit of signing away for 3 books without even seeing how the first one does?

Eadelisi: Many publishers, large and small, will offer a multi-book contract, and in all of those cases, you are signing for 3 books without seeing how the first one does. That's why you do your research up front, so at least you feel your book has a fighting chance. But there's no 100% guarantee that you won't be stuck with a publisher for 3 books, although many contracts have an out clause where the contract can be cancelled by either party with written notice of a certain number of days. When you check out the sample contracts online, check the "out" clauses as well.

BrownDvs: That sounds pretty complicated Eadelisi and an easy way to get caught up in something you may regret.

Eadelisi: I guess you could say that a multi-book contract might turn into something you regret, you're right, and there is no guarantee, large publisher or small. But a 3-book contract is also a guarantee you'll sell at least 3 books to a publisher. You have to go with your gut instinct, after you've done your research, of course.

BrownDvs: gotcha

Eadelisi: And your research with small publishers should also include talking to authors published with that publisher, and ask some hard questions. Then you'll get it straight from the horse's mouth.

HOST WPLC Danie: A local author, just recently got his story published through Publish America and to me it really sounded like self publishing what do you think ?

Eadelisi: I believe that Publish America IS a self-publisher, and that might work out fine if you're willing to be your own staff as well as writing, i.e., do your own editing (and you're confident you can do it well), your own cover artist, your own marketing and sales agent, etc. That's not something I would want to tackle--writing is hard enough on its own. But if you have the talent and the energy to do it, then why not? Oh, and if you have the money.

HOST WPLC Rosa: (agreeing with Liz)

KMacLEOD323: PA supplied a cover to someone whose book I edited...the book was released today.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT PUBLISH AMERICA, CONTACT ME PRIVATELY FOR NEWSPAPER INVESTIGATIVE ARTICLES. BE WARY OF THEM.

BrownDvs: lol, there ya go Ead

Eadelisi: And how has that author's experience been, KMacLEOD? Have they been happy with PA so far?

KMacLEOD323: It's been pretty good. They sent a galley proof and had us make corrections if needed, and they do a bit of promo for you. They also have answered any questions she has had. But I have no direct experience with them.

Eadelisi: I think it's something to check out if you're interested, but I don't think it would be for me.

Dancingcloud42: Would you not agree you should seek first agent representation prior to going to a publisher to begin with?

Eadelisi: Well, that depends. Ideally of course, it's great to have an agent and just dump your book in his or her lap and say, "Sell this for me." But if you choose to go with a small publisher, an agent isn't necessary and may be more trouble than it's worth. So it depends what you're aiming for. And an agent isn't much easier to get than a publisher your first time out-- at least, that's been my experience. So as I said, it depends on your publishing goal.

BrownDvs: Let's say you're out to get the big sales and hopefully make a big impression on the market. Which route would you suggest?

Eadelisi: If your goal is a big publisher, then first, I'd make sure your book is the absolute best it can be, not a comma out of place. Work with critique partners, or even pay an editor, to make sure it's as perfect as you can make it. Then, if you're shooting for a big publisher, I'd suggest looking for an agent first, as with the large publishers, that makes things easier. I believe Writer's Digest also puts out an agent market book, where you can search for agents that accept your kind of book. Submit to them the same way as to a publisher, i.e., follow their guidelines and only send what they ask for. The advantage of an agent is that they usually respond much quicker than a large publisher will, and they may actually tell you why they reject you, if they do. With a publisher or an agent, if they send you a letter detailing the things in your book that caused them to reject it (as opposed to the generic "doesn't meet our needs at this time") then you might consider writing back and asking if they would look at it again if you revise it along the lines of their suggestions. Many will do so.

BrownDvs: Sounds like a good ole crap shoot to me. Thanks for the info Ms. Delisi.

Eadelisi: Brown, you're right, I'm afraid. The author is usually the low man on the totem pole.

Dhewco: You would advise not shooting for Doubleday or Random House first time out? Seriously is e-pub a good idea?

Eadelisi: Well, there are a lot of variables so there's no cut and dried answer. If you've written a fabulous, extremely marketable book that fits exactly into the NY big publisher mold, then you might have a good shot at a big publisher. If you've written something quirky, that perhaps crosses two or three genre lines, like a paranormal mystery (like my current release, FATAL FORTUNE) or something that doesn't follow the exact guidelines of the big guys, like my time-travel romance set in ancient Egypt, LADY OF THE TWO LANDS, then you're probably beating your head against a brick wall to submit to NY. In that case, I'd definitely go with a smaller publisher. They are much more open to things that don't fit the mold, that colors outside the lines. So I guess the answer is, It depends. An e-publisher or small publisher can be the best option for your book, depending on what type of book you've written. And how patient you are with the submission process.

Dhewco: I have a few rewrites to go before I dare take it further than letting a friend read it.

Eadelisi: Good for you! I've seen some submissions that should not have seen the light of day. Go over it until it's as perfect as you can make it, before you submit. Does anyone have any other questions thus far?

Dhewco: I am not even sure if it's topical; but if an agent suggest a rewrite toward a specific genre, should you?

Eadelisi: There's probably no "correct" answer to that. If you feel that the agent's suggestions have merit, if they make sense to you, then go for it. But if you feel strongly that the agent is wrong, and that rewriting it would ruin your book, then don't do it. Look for an agent who believes in it as it is. You have to be the final judge as it will be YOUR name on the cover.

Dhewco: suppose it's psychological drama with a touch of sci-fi but he thinks if it is more saleable as a sci-fi novel. ok thanks.

Eadelisi: But you do want to look at all suggestions from editors or agents with as unbiased an eye as possible. You may find their suggestions have merit--after all, they are professionals in the field. So I'd at least consider it.

Braguine: Unless an agent is pretty excited about your work, they won't --

Eadelisi: Won't make suggestions for changes, is that what you mean?

Braguine: suggest rewrites but simply reject

Eadelisi: It's been my experience that agents are more likely than publishers to give a reason for rejecting, but no one is going to take the time to give you a detailed list of changes or suggested changes unless they are very interested in the book. That's why I said, write to them and ask if you can resubmit after making the changes they suggest. Most of them will say yes. And often that's what they want you to do, that's why they make the suggestions, but they won't tell you outright to revise it because they don't want you to think it's a commitment to buy it if you revise. For all they know, you CAN'T revise it to their specifications. But it's worth a shot, to ask. Any other questions?

HOST WPLC Danie: Say you get your story published through a small publisher and some big publisher wants to pick you up is it possible?

Eadelisi: Most of the time, small publishers only take the rights they're going to use, and only for a limited time--say, 1-2 years--so sure, a large publisher could pick it up after that. And most contracts have an out clause so you can get out earlier if you want or need to.

Dhewco: do small publishers ever not require you to pay a fee for the first printing, to they just buy it straight?

Eadelisi: Yes, definitely. The kind of small publisher I'm talking about is just like a large publisher in that they charge the author no fees of any kind, and they pay royalties on sales. I would never suggest you go to a publisher who charges you fees, unless you intend to self-publish. None of my publishers have charged me a penny.

Dhewco: My bro-in-law's publisher wanted 10 g's for the first printing then promised if they sold they would print the second round he couldn't afford it; so he didn't get publish/ all but gave up on writing.

Eadelisi: I'd run as fast as I could in the other direction from that offer! That's not a publisher, that's more like a vanity press.

Braguine: Most fee chargers in publishing are crooks or vanity presses

Eadelisi: Yes, I agree, although vanity press and self-publishing are a bit different, but they both require money up front.

Dhewco: what exactly is the difference?

Eadelisi: Vanity Press makes you think they are a regular publisher who will market your book etc., as long as you pay a "small fee" up front. With self publishing, they are selling you the services that you want--i.e., cover art, printing, different types of binding, etc., and you are choosing them because you WANT to self publish and market your own book.

Dhewco: I think the company was Dorrance Books or something like that, ever heard of it?

Eadelisi: Yes. That's a vanity press, from what I've heard. But as I said, unless you're great at editing and art and marketing and sales, I wouldn't suggest self-publishing. Too much non-writing work. ;-)

PatGuth: Are there any novels or novelists that have become well-known through this process?

HOST WPLC Rosa: Next week we will welcome Liz back for part two.

Eadelisi: Probably the most well-known one is M.J. Rose, who self-published her first and marketed it enthusiastically, and it was picked up by a big publisher. There are a number of other authors who have moved on to bigger publishers, but she is probably the most well known one.

HOST WPLC Rosa: Thank you Liz for sharing with us.

Dhewco: I couldn't afford to self publish, he-he.

Eadelisi: Me neither. ;-)

Braguine: The Celestine Prophesy was self published

Dhewco: thanks Liz

HOST WPLC Rosa: Visit Liz at www.ElizabethDelisi.com

Eadelisi: Please visit my website at www.elizabethdelisi.com to check out my books! And I'll see you all next week. Thanks for having me!

Dhewco: bye

BrownDvs: Will do

HOST WPLC Rosa: thank you all for coming

BrownDvs: Thanks for speaking tonight Ms. Delisi.

PatGuth: Thanks for the information. I stumbled in here and it was well worth it.

Eadelisi: My pleasure. Good night, everyone!

HOST WPLC Rosa: thanks for sharing Liz

Eadelisi: You're welcome. :-)