Chat hosted by: The Writers' University
http://www.writersvillage.com/
September 15, 2002


<Janet-M08> Hello ladies. Welcome Karen!
<MargareTZ> original publication is still the hardest for e-publishers
<N`omi> Hello Karen! Glad you are here today, and I am too!
* Karen smiles. "N'omi catches me on the Sime~Gen lists, too."
<N`omi> perfect timing!
* N`omi grins..
<MargareTZ> I know, Karen, I recruited her way back
* Karen is laughing softly.
*N`omi grins
<N`omi> have you read writers-L this morning, Margaret?
<MargareTZ> now, let the Karen MacLeod fan club come to order
<N`omi> here, here!
<MargareTZ> yes, N`omi
<Janet-M08> Here, here.
<Karen> Not MY fan club. No such thing. (mirth)
<Janet-M08> We are creating one now, then, Karen. :-)
* N`omi chuckles
<N`omi> you have quite a list of stuff on your plate, Karen! whew!
<Karen> Well, I wanted to let you know why I can't do any 'recreational reading' right now. I have an edit of a book on Chess, which was released in 1907 I have to work on for Toad Hall.
<Karen> They want to re-release it, and I'm to check to see that the paper manuscript matches the one existing copy of the book I was sent. And bring the language to modern day.
<N`omi> understood!! on the game chess?
<Karen> Yes, the game chess.
<Janet-M08> 1907. Do you have to bring all the English up to modern day style?
<N`omi> kewl!
<Karen> Yes, I asked if they wanted the language updated. I was told to do so. I also did that with the Sime~Gen novels.
<Janet-M08> Karen was just telling us how she is editing a book that was first published in 1907 and is bringing up to modern day standards.
<MelissaAnne-M25> Wow
<Karen> I haven't yet started it. Its a book on the game Chess, that should be released by Toad Hall Co.
<MelissaAnne-M25> Karen, don't let us interrupt you
<Karen> No, I'm here to answer your questions.
<Barbara> Hi all. Started in the wrong place. Glad to find you. <MargareTZ> Karen, our free F2K class has advanced students who mentor the new students
<N`omi> Ahh, silly me, I forgot!
<MargareTZ> help them learn how to post, explain how to access lessons and so forth
<Barbara> It's a great class. I took it twice.
<Karen> Sounds like Jacqueline Lichtenberg's philosophy of "learn and teach." That's how I was taught to edit.
<N`omi> Karen, Margaret was my mentor when I first took the F-99 class back in 1999
* Karen nods and listens.
<MargareTZ> getting close to the hour
<MargareTZ> who wants to be the Welcomer?
<Karen> I can stay for about as long as you wish. I've told our Sime~Gen webmaster I need the time off today...so I get some of it.
<Janet-M08> That's very generous of you, Karen. Thanks!
<Karen> Your group had "firsts" on my time weeks ago.
<N`omi> Knowing what your life is like, I deeply thank you, Karen!
<Joan> We appreciate that, Karen
<N`omi> are you actually *sitting*? or on a laptop in restful mode, Karen?
<MelissaAnne-M25> Can we ask questions or Margaret will we go through you?
<MargareTZ> a few rules, now. Please let Karen finish before asking additional questions
<Karen> Let me see if I can give advice, knowledge and help to all of you. I don't have a laptop, yet, but should soon get one to continue my basic work when not at home. Start when you are ready....
<MargareTZ> and please, don't throw too many questions at once. if there are more than three waiting, please wait.
<MargareTZ> Okay, for starters, Karen, as a freelance editor do you do content editing, or copy editing or both?
<Karen> I tend to do both, as any editor. Continuity....giving suggestions when something an author says might not make sense... 'do you mean A or B' If you need elaboration, let me know.
<N`omi> yes, elaboration, Please, Karen
<Barbara> So you mean content editing on a smaller scale--a sentence that seems vague?
<Karen> All right. I have found errors in books NBI (NovelBooks, Inc.) has given me that they have re-released under their imprint. I've found things the first editors at other houses never found, and pointed that out to the author.
<Barbara> Places where the author changed the story and they no longer fit with the flow of the plot?
<Karen> Not exactly. Suppose someone forgot a briefcase in the parking garage. Yet in the scene after, he has the case.
<Karen> I have experts in fields whose brains I pick. I had to edit something about flying a small plane. But I had only been in one once. I knew something was amiss, but asked a small plane pilot to help me correct the scene.
<Karen> Does this help you understand some of what I do?
<Barbara> Yes, it does.
<N`omi> Do you do this from paper manuscript, or from the actual book?
<MargareTZ> You mostly work directly with the writers?
<Karen> I edit both on computer with Word files, or on paper. The original Sime~Gen manuscripts in the 1980's were passed from hand to hand on paper. The new edits of them I did electronically.
<Jerry> that must have taken up a lot of time
<Karen> With Novel Books, Inc. I am one of the editorial staff. I'm handed a manuscript by computer, and I work with the author.
<Karen> When the author and I feel we've done the best we can with the manuscript, the AUTHOR sends it to the senior editor who gave me the assignment.
<Barbara> So a book goes through more than one editor, usually?
<Karen> With the book I'm going to do for Toad Hall, on the game chess, I have the actual 1907 book to compare with a paper printout. Yes, at least with NBI.
<Paige> How did you become an editor, Karen?
<Karen> I suppose the Sime~Gen novels Jacqueline Lichtenberg is submitting to Meisha Merlin will go through their editors, too.
<Karen> Paige's question: "I've always enjoyed reading. I became involved in Science Fiction fandom...
<Jerry> Karen, I've been to NBI site, but see any info on author's submissions being charged for editing. Is that because NBI doesn't charge for editing?
<Karen> I met Jacqueline Lichtenberg through that, and my early editing experience is from editing fan fiction.
<Karen> I believe NBI's editing is part of the contract with the author. Working with NBI I have a contract with them.
<MargareTZ> Jerry, only a Vanity Press charges the author.
<Karen> Or an author asks for an editor to do their work, and pays them. That's how I freelance.
<Karen> My fan editing has been going on for more than 25 years. That editing of A COMPANION IN ZEOR has brought attention to my skills. NBI learned of me there.
<MelissaAnne-M25> Please explain the difference in copy editing and content editing
<Barbara> I just got back from WorldCon. It seemed a wonderful place to get started with fandom and writing and editing. --Just a comment. New to chat.
<Janet-M08> Do you get a lot of freelance work, Karen?
<Karen> Copyediting: Grammar, spelling, punctuation primarily.
<Karen> Content editing: Continuity, flow, 'does this work,' do you 'mean this or that.'
<MargareTZ> btw, the fan editing Karen mentions is all volunteer work
<Karen> Fan writers have become professionals. I can name a few.
<Karen> Freelance work: I haven't gotten much of it yet, as my professional reputation is still building.
<Karen> What I charge depends on how much work I have to do to the book. I don't "doctor" it or write it. I make suggestions the author takes or leaves.
<MelissaAnne-M25> By freelance, you mean that if one of us had our novels ready, we could hire you to look it over for us?
<Karen> Yes....
<Jerry> that's great to know, Karen
<Barbara> Do you have any advice for new writers hoping to be published?
<MargareTZ> and we will ask Karen for contact information to be included with the log.
<Karen> Depending on what you would want me to do FOR you, that would determine the fee.
<Jerry> how about just an over all read of book?
<Karen> I'm not a writer, so I can't speak as one. What I would suggest is read everything and anything. Write, write, write.
<Karen> Read without comments, Jerry? How would that help you?
<MelissaAnne-M25> She sounds like a writer
<MargareTZ> Karen, is there any organization of freelance editors? like for agents and so forth?
<Karen> If there is such an organization, I don't know of it, personally.
<MargareTZ> Karen can think like a writer, that is her strength.
<Jerry> Margaret, a library might know?
<N`omi> You write like a writer, Karen!
* Karen smiles. "Thanks, Margaret. I have been told I should write, but I don't for the most part."
<N`omi> Litman and McLoud?
<N`omi> MacLeod, I meant
<N`omi> sorry
<Karen> Yes...but the Litman is old news. I got divorced, and took back the MacLeod. Same person, old name.
<N`omi> ahh, I had always thought it was short for literature editor or something!
<Paige> Karen, what advice would you give to writers who want to complete a book and get it published?
<Karen> No, Litman was actually my married name.
* N`omi grins, thanks Karen
<Karen> I would suggest write for yourself, write for fannish publications, and hone your skills. I don't know much about the production environment of writing and publishing.
<N`omi> When you go to the cons, do you do something to indicate you are available for editor?
<Karen> I've never been asked to help with the writer's workshops, but I have offered. I'd gladly be introduced to someone who knows I edit, and try to help them.
<Karen> If wanting to be professionally published, you would submit a query letter to see if the publisher might be interested in your work...
<Jerry> Karen, glad to know that info.
<Karen> Give them a synopsis of your book in that letter, and tell them if they are interested to contact you. Then, often you are asked to submit a package...a few chapters and an outline, I believe.
<Dancer> Karen, what is the preferred computer format currently desired by publishing houses? I'm from back in the double-spaced and margined world.
* Karen smiles. "Actually each publisher has their own preferences. And I go back that far, on paper manuscript work. NBI uses rich text, others use Quark...or something else.
<MargareTZ> Baen wants rich text files (rtf) for electronic submissions, Dancer.
<N`omi> Karen, have you seen the volunteer work done with a zines, etc.. hone folks into professional-prospetcs? and could you name a few, please?
<Karen> There's a good article on how to break in from fanzine writing to professional authoring in the Simegen writer's school . The link to the article is http://www.simegen.com/school/workshop/WORKfanzinewritingforprofit.html
<Jerry> Karen, I know different genres have a set number of pages do you have a set number of pages one should submit for synopsis?
<Karen> Jerry's question -- I don't know. I suspect the publisher would say "one chapter" or three, up to them.
<Karen> N'omi: Fanzine writers who became professionals?
<MargareTZ> Most publishers have web sites now and have guidelines on them.
<N`omi> yes please.. and editors, html-writers, as well.
<Karen> From A COMPANION IN ZEOR - Andrea Alton, who published from Baen, Cheryl Wolverton who does romances... there are others.
<Jerry> I know Margaret. I also asked Karen if she had a set number of pages for synopsis..
<Karen> Jerry, for me to look at your work? I thought you meant a publisher? No, I have no set number. I suspect an outline and the first two chapters might work. Usually someone sends me the entire manuscript.
<N`omi> How about editors and html-writers?
<Karen> "I have a novel. It needs an editor." They give me a synopsis of this book, and ask, "Do you want to do this book? If so, what will you charge, and what will you do for that money?"
<Karen> Anyone can do HTML. There are programs that can do it for you, N'aomi.
<Karen> I never use the editing tools in a computer. They're not at all accurate.
<Jerry> Karen, I know that for a fact about HTML
<Lucille> what is normal charge for editing?
<N`omi> no, I meant those who spent years volunteering to do html etc for webzines, have you seen them go one to be professionals? I.E. was the volunteering help them later?
<Barbara> comment: yes. MS Word requires that you know lots about grammar, lol. It often makes the wrong suggestions.
<Jerry> Karen, how long does it take NBI to respond to an author after they submit manuscript?
<Karen> Volunteers who do HTML can sometimes earn income from those skills. You'd have to set up a site, and offer your skill to the public.
<N`omi> have you seen any of the volunteers on sites you have worked on, also write? and be published?
<Karen> Jerry, I don't know NBI's policies. I only get the manuscripts to work on. I don't do the initial contact with the authors, or their contracts. Perhaps their website tells more. http://www.novelbooksinc.com [Novel Books closed in January 2005}
<N`omi> part of why I am asking, is like Sime~Gen, T-Zero also depends on volunteers... sometimes I worry I will never be able to publish because Of the time in volunteering... hence, my questions.
<Jerry> Barbara, I was told that MS word's grammar check is basically for nonfiction stuff
<Barbara> Yes. But it still makes incorrect suggestions since it always offers the most common use of the comma, etc. But we digress and should let Karen speak, yes?
<Karen> I did mention that some of the fan authors I worked with became professionals. Whether they made a living from it, I don't know. Jean Lorrah's original comments to Jacqueline on the Sime series brought her into professional writing. I believe FIRST CHANNEL was the first professional book Jean did, though she had a lot of Star Trek fiction before that.
<Janet-M08> Is there an editing program/Spellchecker you would recommend, Karen?
<Karen> The editing tools I use include a number of good dictionaries, a thesaurus, and THE CHICAGO MANUAL OF STYLE.
<MargareTZ> the Star Trek books were 'work for hire' weren't they, Karen?
<MargareTZ> Strunk & White?
<Karen> Jean did a lot of fan fiction before the Trek novels.... NIGHT OF THE TWIN MOONS was one such fanzine. I'm not familiar with the reference, Margaret.
<Janet-M08> There is a very good Guide to Grammar site that I often refer to.
<Karen> To edit properly on paper with the standard marks, I use MARK MY WORDS by Peggy Smith. <Janet-M08> Guide to Grammar and Writing http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/index.htm
<Janet-M08> Thanks Karen, will look that one up.
<MargareTZ> Strunk & White is the "style" manual T-Zero relies on, also recommended by editors of Analog and Asimov's
<Karen> Another useful book is the FRANKLIN COVEY STYLE GUIDE.
<N`omi> Karen: How did you get noticed by the JL's?
<Karen> CHICAGO MANUAL OF STYLE is usually a common ground to editing guidelines.
<Karen> Back in 1977 I was editing a Star Trek fanzine whose name I don't remember. At one convention I was selling them. I arranged to interview Jacqueline at that convention. At that time she was selling HOUSE OF ZEOR with a money back guarantee, autographed....We got to speaking, and I interviewed her based on her STAR TREK LIVES.... She looked at my fanzine, sold me HOUSE OF ZEOR, and we started from there.
<Karen> Later she let me read the Sime~Gen novels in manuscript, and valued my comments. She, Sharon Jarvis (originally of Doubleday, now of Toad Hall) and Jean taught me to edit. That brought on A COMPANION IN ZEOR, and then later to NBI and other editing for me.
<Jerry> Karen, is there a URL for your fanzine?
<Karen> http://www.simegen.com/sgfandom/rimonslibrary/cz/
<N`omi> ahh, thank you! I better understand now!
<Karen> There is more available on paper than on the website. Many authors won't release their old work to the web.
<MargareTZ> with the Chess book you are obviously expanding into non-fiction. do you also do mysteries, historical, etc?
<Karen> My reading tastes go into all the genres you just mentioned. I wouldn't mind doing the work if it was offered. One title I did for NBI was a historical romance....a period piece in a way.... MARRIED BY MISTAKE, Laurie Alice Eakes.
<MelissaAnne-M25> Do you ever see a book published that you edited and know how bad it was before being edited
<Karen> I hate to admit it, but there's one out there now with my name on it, and I'm not happy with it. I didn't even put it on my resume The author added material after I had finished with it, and didn't give me the courtesy of another read or comment.
<Barbara> lol, Melissa. That's a dangerous question.
<MelissaAnne-M25> I wasn't asking for names. Lol.
<Barbara> That must have been frustrating.
<Karen> I'd give out the name, but I'm ashamed of the finished product. 10,000 words cut from it by me alone. Yes, it was frustrating. But the author paid me, and I did a lot more for him than I got paid for. The book in question is a freelance, not an NBI work
<Jerry> Karen. some or all of us know at least one NBI authors.
<Janet-M08> What if the author doesn't go with some of your suggestions? Is that upsetting when you know you are right?
<MargareTZ> do you find more overwritten manuscripts than too short?
<N`omi> Which brings up another question: how do you *let go* when the author does not choose to go with your advice?
<Karen> NBI does quality work. No, its the author's "vision" that I try to enhance. My own feelings don't get into the mix. The author has THEIR story to tell. It is NOT MY STORY. I may NOT be right. They have a vision, that I have to help make clear to the reader. I've been corrected by authors, and they show me I've been wrong. I learn as well as they do.
<N`omi> Ah, that's how to approach it, great! Thanks!
<Lucille> how are you contacted about editing a ms?
<Karen> How have I been contacted as a freelancer?
<Lucille> if that's what you are, yes.
<Karen> An author has written a novel. They wish to find an editor to polish that novel before a potential publisher sees it. They have heard of me through "the grapevine" or through a publishing house or some other means (for example, my name is in all the NBI books I have edited, listed on the copyright page as editor). They contract with me to edit their book, and pay me an agreed upon amount, in portions, to edit the work. I work under contract with Novel Books, Inc. That's a different thing, but the work is the same.
<Jerry> Karen, how do you keep your feelings out of MS? Is that hard to do?
<N`omi> When you edited a Zine, how much room to do you give a writer, before you say whether or not the 'Zine will accept the story?
<Karen> A good editor edits what they are told to edit. I give authors my reasons and comments, and WHY I have commented as such. I have to keep my feelings out of it, since it is their "vision" I have been entrusted with.
<Karen> With the fanzine, often we have the author do multiple re-writes if there is a potential story. I try to get them to write the best the can create.
<Karen> An editor should NOT let their feelings intrude on what they edit. They shouldn't drastically take the author's ideas and bend them to their own individual opinions.
<MelissaAnne-M25> Have you ever edited one that was so bad that you hated sending the corrected ms back
<Karen> Professionally, yes. And it was vanity press released. I can give you the URL and you can look at the edited first chapter and make your own conclusions.
<MargareTZ> Vanity Press is not something you want to brag about!
<Karen> Go look, you might learn something. Remember, what you'll be reading is what I edited.... The author wrote the book, and I edited it. The chapter at the URL is edited as released in the novel.
<Joan> please explain what you mean by Vanity Press
<Karen> (URL given. Intentionally omitted here)
<Karen> Margaret, do you want to explain Vanity Press or should I?
<MargareTZ> they make money by charging 'authors;' they'll 'publish' anything, no matter how bad.
<Karen> Vanity press can also mean that someone wants their book published, and THEY pay a publishing house to release it.
* Karen nods in agreement with Margaret.
<MargareTZ> That doesn't mean all the books they publish are bad, just that they don't care.
<Jerry> and that makes it bad for others.
<Joan> I can see that.
<Karen> I feel for those who are gullible enough to want their work printed that they fall for such schemes.
<Barbara> They don't have a reputation to uphold, so it doesn't matter. They get paid by the author, right. Don't really count on sales, so authors don't make anything.
<N`omi> it also means their book will never get reviewed.
<MargareTZ> exactly, although even legitimate small press books have a hard time getting reviewed.
<Karen> Some vanity presses print the book as the author has paid them to do so. Others take advantage of a potential author and money from them so the book is printed. Margaret is also correct about legitimate press reviews.
<Dancer> I believe they often sell a "package deal" and tend to deliver very little for your money. (vanity presses)
<Karen> With my fan editing, I always tell the author what I see that is good with their story, or what I suggest for improvement, and I do it for no charge. Dancer seems to understand the vanity press concept as I have learned of it.
<Lucille> what do you mean by fan editing?
<Barbara> Karen, do you ever suggest potential markets or agents to writers you edit?
<Karen> I still take manuscripts for A COMPANION IN ZEOR. Writing for a fanzine is a good way for beginners to learn their craft. I don't know of any agents other than Sharon Jarvis, but I would suggest how to contact a publishing house with your work.
<Karen> Information about Sharon Jarvis, and her publishing house can be found at: http://www.simegen.com/bios/sharonbio.html and http://www.simegen.com/writers/spotlights/nonfiction/1101/sjarvis.html
<MargareTZ> do you find most writers have trouble figuring out where to start researching publishers?
<Janet-M08> What does Karen enjoy to read in her private time?
<Karen> Karen's favorite has always been science fiction... But you name it, I probably have something, somewhere about it. Metaphysical, real history, biographies, novels of many kinds.
* N`omi giggles, imagining the only private time Karen gets is in the Rest room!
<Karen> Not even that, N'omi...my cats share it.
* Karen smiles.
<N`omi> LOL!! True, true!
<Karen> Go Ahead with more questions if you like.
<Barbara> What qualities do you like to see in fiction. (This is general, I know.)
<WriteGirl> I apologize for being late...question: what is NBI looking for over the next year...and how many books do you expect to publish?
<Karen> Not sure how to answer that about fiction, since everyone's taste is subjective. I have no idea what NBI is looking for. I only am part of the editorial staff. Check their website: http://www.novelbooksinc.com [Novel Books closed its doors in January 2005]
<Dalynn> Okay...I am writing a novel based on my life...people keep telling me that is too hard to attempt for a first novel...Too sticky. What's your opinion?
<MargareTZ> Karen, I know you said as long as we want, but we usually limit chat length. we want our guests to be willing to come back.
<Karen> If you've had an interesting life, Dalynn, and feel there's a story worth telling, give it a try.
<Karen> Margaret, when do you want to roll up the sidewalk? I'd come back if you feel I have something of value to share. Its been a pleasure.
<Barbara> thanks for your time, Karen. It's been fun.
<MargareTZ> Let's do a last call for questions and then close. You've been a great guest!
<Karen> I recently edited an autobiography for NBI that was very interesting. There is potential there.
<MelissaAnne-M25> How about giving the newcomers a last chance.
<Karen> Sure. I'm listening.
<Tep> Is Karen still here?
<MargareTZ> hi Tep. we are finishing up the guest chat with Karen MacLeod. if you have a question, ask now
<Karen> Yes, I am still here. Welcome.
<Tep> Hey Karen, just wanted to say "hello." What have I missed?
<Dalynn> I forgot it was eastern time...sorry. Agent or no agent?
<MargareTZ> the log will be posted, Tep
<Karen> I also hope to post the log at Simegen.com somewhere.
<Tep> Karen is an editor for my publisher.
<N`omi> Karen is an editor, not a writer.
<Karen> But I don't know you as "Tep" there.
<Tep> Dorice.
<Dalynn> What I mean is do new writers need agents or not...?
<Jerry> Karen, I notice there was at least one man published with NBI. The rest are women. Do you know why?
<Karen> Ah HA! Well, you'll see I spoke well of NBI here.
<Tep> Hi all-Dorice
<Karen> There's more than one man publishing with NBI....
<Tep> Jerry, there are a lot of men at NBI
<Jerry> ok. I'll take another look. it has been some time since I've been there.
<Karen> I don't know the whys of selection there. Dorice may know more about that than I do.
<Tep> There are probably ten or more.
<Tep> They base their selections on many thing, grammar, well-written prose, good, tight story. Right Kar?
<MargareTZ> Last thing, Karen. If someone wants to contact you for editing, please give contact information.
<Karen> Sure...I've had very little difficult work with NBI manuscripts I've worked on.
<Tep> Oh, I'm so late. So sorry.
* N`omi groans, really wanting to talk to Karen some more.. off topic!
<Karen> I can be reached through Jacqueline Lichtenberg's website, which address I can give here. I have others as some of you know. Since this will be put on the web, I don't want to give out too much information.
<savina1> must leave now. Thanks Karen it has been interesting and I learned a lot.
<MargareTZ> anyone who wants can stay. just ending the official chat
<Karen> Reach me at: karen@simegen.com (all lower case)
<Karen> N'omi, you know how to reach me in more ways than just that.
<MargareTZ> Karen, I meant for our private area only
<MargareTZ> as in WVU students
<Karen> Privately, I can be reached through: (addresses given and snipped here) I have about 9 mail addresses.
<Jerry> I do good to keep up with one mail addy
<MargareTZ> Thank you for being our guest. We've enjoyed it very much and all learned something.
<N`omi> Thank you, Karen!!
<MelissaAnne-M25> Yes, thank you.
<Karen> Thank you for the invitation. I hope you all found it valuable.
<Jerry> Yes, I learned a lot Karen.
<Barbara> Thank you, Karen. It was very interesting.
<Dalynn> Thank you Karen
<WriteGirl> Thanks for being here, Karen. Again I apologize for being late, but I will definitely read the log:)
<MargareTZ> End log here.

=====================
Additional information and clarification on what she, as an editor, would do for an author. Also see: The Value of Expertise and Research.

I have always believed, and stressed to "my" authors, that their story is theirs - I'm only here to help them make it the very best possible story it can be. I don't always agree with content, but it's not my place to do so. Spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure, now - that's a different thing entirely...

I know some people believe that you should be able to work with any author/editor, but sometimes personalities just don't mesh. When that happens, it's to the author's benefit to get a different editor. Otherwise she/he runs the risk of getting a poorly edited story that may not do well in the market.

My definition of Freelance work: An author has written a novel. They wish to find an editor to polish that novel before a potential publisher sees it. They have heard of me through "the grapevine" or through a publishing house or some other means (for example, my name is in many of the books I have edited, listed on the copyright page as editor). They contract with me to edit their book, and pay me an agreed upon amount, in portions, to edit the work. I have also done freelance work when a publishing house says "I have a novel. It needs an editor." They give me a synopsis of this book, and ask, "Do you want to do this book? If so, what will you charge, and what will you do for that money?" They then negotiate the contract for me, and have the author contact me with the manuscript.

What I do ---
I copy edit (grammar, punctuation and spelling) of the content of the manuscript. I check for continuity errors. I pare all extraneous words out...and can point each of them out. All the little IF, AND, BUT, THEN, THEY etc. I check for smooth flow, and help tighten the manuscript, WITH the author. I make suggestions... I question what the author "means" if something is unclear. Do you mean "a" or do you mean "b" I do try to encourage the author with their work. If I see they have potential (in my opinion) I try to point that out, and urge them to continue to write when they get discouraged. That's "Karen" and not necessarily what every editor does.

I am NOT a book "doctor." I do NOT re-write the book. I do not LIKE to give writing lessons to the author that truly writes dreadfully...giving writing lessons is not the job of an editor. My comments within a manuscript I'm editing are only suggestions. The author is free to keep or discard any of them, in my opinion. We would work together to make this the best manuscript it can be.

What I wish writers would do and not do before I see their manuscript --
DO: Spell and grammar check the entire work. Cut as many extraneous words, and make the work flow before an editor sees it. Write your work, and let it sit for a time (probably about a month) and then re-read it with a "fresh eye" to see what changes might be made -- and make them.

NOT DO: Expect the editor to write their novel for them. They can take the editor's questions about what is already written, and the editor's comments of what the editor has read. Using that information they craft the work; an editor does not.

Further information on what an editor might do, can be found in the HOMEWORK section, below.