This chat was held in the America On Line Chatroom "Field of Dreams" on June 10, 2003, exclusively for the members of the America On Line Community's WRITING RIGHT members.
Elizabeth Delisi, a professional author, is one of the Hosts.


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KMacLEOD323: Hello, Danie. Jacqueline will be with you shortly....Karen
AmbrovZeor: hey guys where did you all come from!
GwynnaL: My lucky day ... I'm home sick so I get to come to the workshop!
KMacLEOD323: I'm going to LURK unless you need me Jacqueline.
HOST WPLC Danie: it's the twilight zone
AmbrovZeor: Well that figures - out of the mists of time.
HOST WPLC Danie: just teasing
AmbrovZeor: OK, so we should wait to see if anyone else turns up?
HOST WPLC Danie: we need to wait for Liz
AmbrovZeor: OK, Gwynn -- could you tell me about yourself please?
FaithfullSpirit2: hi all
HOST WPLC Danie: < GwynnaL: Tell about myself? I don't want to interrupt the chat.
AmbrovZeor: You're not here for the chat?
FaithfullSpirit2: what's the topic?
AmbrovZeor: Well, then give me a hint about who you are and what you generally do. Aha, people are starting to arrive.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Glad to see everyone.
GwynnaL: I'm sorry! I didn't realize you were moderating. I'm a middle-aged English teacher writing fantasy, sf, and horror. Also do a lot of youth ministry.
AmbrovZeor: Professionally writing?
Romancewrtforevr: I'm a writer in the doldrums.
AmbrovZeor: Youth Ministry -- oh, that's good.
GwynnaL: I've had a few things published
GwynnaL: Still working on placing my novels.
AmbrovZeor: Good, anyone else here been published?
Romancewrtforevr: in my dreams!!! Does that count?
FaithfullSpirit2: I have, but not any novel, yet.
HOST WPLC Danie: Well, if you count a college magazine then yes. If you don't oh well.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz:
FaithfullSpirit2: I've had several articles and a few poems published.
AmbrovZeor: Working on placing novels -- everything counts. I'm trying to find out who we are so I'll know what I can offer that would be of interest. The general topic I chose was about the difference between just selling a book and becoming a professional writer.
FaithfullSpirit2: I'm working on submitting my first novel to a contest.
Romancewrtforevr: I'm trying not to commit suicide. (just kidding)
FaithfullSpirit2: oh, Romance! Don't give up.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: LOL, Romance!
GwynnaL: A worthy endeavor, Romance.
FaithfullSpirit2: that isn't something to kid about, Romance.
AmbrovZeor: Contests help -- I did that at the beginning. Was runner up in the N3F story contest and got the attention of a professional writer who gave me some really important advice. We use it as the motto of our WorldCrafters Guild School
AmbrovZeor: "Writing is a PERFORMING ART."
GwynnaL: you're an N3F baby too? I won three times .. never got a prize. I gave up submitting to them.
AmbrovZeor: Been in N3F for over 50 years, yes. simegen.com hosts their website now. I am so proud of that.
FaithfullSpirit2: Ambrov, the one I'm entering is sponsored by a pub I was targeting and word is they usually offer a contract to the winner.
Romancewrtforevr: how old are you Amb? 50 years?
AmbrovZeor: "Ambrov" is Jacqueline Lichtenberg -- address is "JL" for these chats.
Romancewrtforevr: wow
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Thanks, JL.
AmbrovZeor: 61 years and counting -- and just getting to the good part. My career plans have worked out just exactly as I originally planned, and I'm now over the mid-career pullback and into the re-launch segment.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Good to hear!
AmbrovZeor: Which sort of brings me to the topic I had in mind.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: If you're ready, JL, we can get started.
Romancewrtforevr: <-envious
AmbrovZeor: There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between just selling your work and being a professional writer. It's like the fannish difference between FIAWOL (Fandom Is A Way Of Life) and FIAJAGDH (Fandom Is Just A God Damn Hobby.)
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: We're in protocol now, everyone. :-)
AmbrovZeor: Being a professional writer takes a total-life commitment -- there's no part of your existence that's exempt from the discipline. Every book you read, dream you dream, moment of the day is occupied by looking at the world from a writer's pov. And there's a big difference between just writing for the art of it -- from the heart -- and writing to SELL. Which is why I asked people to introduce themselves -- because I wanted to know how many here are interested in becoming COMMERCIAL ARTISTS above and beyond just artists. So let's hear from you all -- how many of you know the difference between just writing, and maybe selling by accident occasionally and being a commercial artist?
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Gwynna,
AmbrovZeor: May I have some answers here or is that out of protocol?
GwynnaL: Writing without a concern for what has gone before and what is happening in the market as of now is really a form of self-gratification.
Joyfulbee8: I think I do, but I'm willing to learn.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: No, if you want people to "yell out" their answers right now, then we can do that. ;-)
AmbrovZeor: Yes, I'd like to get a group of answers here.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Okay, everyone just speak up then.
JWilso5584: I missed the question.
GwynnaL: A commercial artist should be aware that he or she isn't just imitating but is conveying a story that people want to hear.
AmbrovZeor: Consider you're in a panel discussion and the panelist has asked for a raising of hands. "People want to hear" -- good. Anyone else?
Romancewrtforevr: is this painting or writing? I do both.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Something I'm not sure I can do--write to the market rather than writing what you want and hope it sells.
AmbrovZeor: Is there a difference between painting and writing?
Romancewrtforevr: not really
KMacLEOD323: Good writing is painting with words....
AmbrovZeor: Good answer Romancewrt
Romancewrtforevr: I know one thing, don't write something you know nothing about.
FaithfullSpirit2: I'm with you Liz.
JWilso5584: Romance I would really find that very limiting.
AmbrovZeor: Is there an inherent CONFLICT (either/or choice) between writing for a market and writing from your inner heart?
GwynnaL: I don't know if you have to write to a market, per se, but certainly if you write while ignorant of the market you'll have problems.
Romancewrtforevr: unless you research of course.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Yes, I think there is a conflict, if what you want to write isn't what's selling. ;-)
AmbrovZeor: OK let me comment on those answers.
GwynnaL: I think there's a conflict if you're not willing to compromise some urges.
AmbrovZeor: "People want to hear" -- and "if what you want to write isn't what's selling" Both these concepts are around the outside of the problem of the artist who wants to go commercial (i.e. sell what they write on purpose rather than by scattershot accident,)"compromise" is the heart of the matter Gwynna.
Suspensewriter: My agent told me always write about what moves you most... I get tired of hearing certain writers (especially certain retired screenwriters) claim that there is a commercial formula and timing that can be extrapolated to the fiction industry... there are too many variables in publishing.
AmbrovZeor: Now how do you blend these two functions into a seamless whole? What can you do to YOURSELF to change yourself from an "artist" into a "commercial artist"? (and whether you want to do that to yourself is entirely another matter -- first let's see if we can figure out the difference.)
Romancewrtforevr: how far are we willing to bastardize our writing though?
AmbrovZeor: OK, any answers to that one? (and do you have to bastardize your writing to accomplish this?)
GwynnaL: One thought is to be aware of our own writing ... how it differs from acceptable limitations.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: I sure don't have one...if I did, I think my books would be selling better. ;-)
AmbrovZeor: If you think you're the first artists ever to face this problem, think again. There exists a solution.
GwynnaL: Many writers write without really knowing WHY they put something into their story.
Suspensewriter: What I'm saying is, to be commercial is great but trying to time what will be most commercially viable next is futile.
AmbrovZeor: "why" - EXCELLENT Gwynn. Yes, "fashion" is one thing -- that's another industry. (it's exemplified in the apparel industry but applies to storytelling too). Obviously none of you have asked yourself this question before. Try this concept - has anyone here ever heard of the concept "vehicle?"
AmbrovZeor: answers please?
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: No, I sure haven't.
GwynnaL: yes.
AmbrovZeor: Anyone else?
Romancewrtforevr: I'd hate to be forced to write something just for the sake of readers.
AmbrovZeor: "be forced" and "just for the sake of" -- that's what we must avoid of course. No reader wants to read fiction the writer has been "forced" to write.
Romancewrtforevr: yes
AmbrovZeor: The writer is selling a commodity -- and that commodity is FUN. If you're not having fun, your readers won't either. So you have to FIND a way to have fun and turn out a product which fits the market. The device writers have invented to dodge around this problem is called the "vehicle."
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Question, Faithfull?
FaithfullSpirit2: How can it be fun if you have to write what is selling? why can't you just write what you want?
AmbrovZeor: It edges close to the concept "formula" (which can be fun but isn't always).
Romancewrtforevr: sometimes that's a Herculean effort though.
AmbrovZeor: Amateurs and "artists" "write what they want" -- commercial artists take that material that's been written in a gushing stream of desire to write and TURN IT INTO a commercial product.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Ah! Interesting difference.
AmbrovZeor: In other words, you do what you've been doing in the first draft (or outline stage) -- then survey the market to find out where that particular item could be MARKETED. Then you fit what you WANT TO WRITE into the existing MARKET. And the device you use for doing that is called a "vehicle" -- EDITORS are trained to recognize "vehicles" and buy them, ignoring everything else. If you want to sell, you have to pack YOUR material into an appropriate (keyword, appropriate) vehicle.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Ooh, sounds like I need to get a vehicle. ;-)
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Question, Faithfull?
FaithfullSpirit2: what's a vehicle?
AmbrovZeor: A vehicle is a kind of "formula." It's a framework that carries your story.
FaithfullSpirit2: is that like putting all your stories into the small town and reusing some characters?
AmbrovZeor: Remember above someone commented on WHAT YOU PUT INTO THE STORY-- and knowing WHY you put stuff into a story?
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Yes.
AmbrovZeor: The thing you use to decide what goes into a story and what must be left out is your THEME.
Romancewrtforevr: I write the beginning then end...fill in the middle to bring it all together. That way I at least have a point to arrive at.
AmbrovZeor: THEMES can be separated into "genres" -- "Love conquers all" is a romance-genre theme (but you can use it elsewhere these days). A VEHICLE is built on THEME too -- think of THEME as the wheels.
FaithfullSpirit2: (I still don't understand vehicle)
AmbrovZeor: Take STAR TREK The Original Series "The Wagon Train To The Stars" -- that's the "vehicle" that got it onto the air. It is JUST LIKE a long-running, successful and popular show -- BUT DIFFERENT. (The order in which you write a story doesn't matter much -- that's another topic).
FaithfullSpirit2: So putting your story in the same small town can be vehicle.
AmbrovZeor: Here I am trying to give you a way of looking at the entire prospect of BEING A WRITER (i.e. someone who can write a story for an anthology at invitation, in one day, and have it accepted without changes).
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: So are you saying that the vehicles already exist, you just have to find the one that fits your story best?
Suspensewriter: In other words, putting your ideas into a certain plot structure and character types.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz:
AmbrovZeor: Someone who can SELL any novel they write on purpose to the market they've chosen.
Romancewrtforevr: <-confused also
AmbrovZeor: Aha, "Plot Structure and Character Types" -- that's an awfully limiting way of looking at it. It's what makes you FEEL too constricted.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Question, Danie?
HOST WPLC Danie: Can I add my two cents and ask I question at the same time.
FaithfullSpirit2: (I don't understand either)
AmbrovZeor: For example, Captain Kirk wasn't the wagon-train leader (hey, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA did it even closer to WAGON TRAIN).
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Yes, Danie, of course!
Suspensewriter: Ambrov - touche, but then can you give us another way of defining 'vehicle"?
HOST WPLC Danie: I know some of us writers aren't the organized we go on a whim and idea. I don't think there is always a need for a set diagram of what we write. Well they were talking about plot and structure, and I was just saying that some of us just lets the muse take us. Is there anything wrong in that? That organized, I mean.
AmbrovZeor: Yes, please let's hear questions.
AmbrovZeor: OK, let's talk ROMANCE. Today we have TIME TRAVEL ROMANCE -- but I've yet to read a TTR that uses a reasonably scientific method of time travel. In these ROMANCES (genre) TIME TRAVEL IS THE VEHICLE.
AmbrovZeor: "THE MUSE TAKE US" -- excellent Danie. Yes, cultivating that muse is absolutely vital to living a life making your main income from writing.
HOST WPLC Danie: thanks
GwynnaL: Cultivate as in educate the muse in the ways of the craft and the market.
AmbrovZeor: The muse is absolutely necessary -- but is your muse a wayward child or a disciplined adult? Does it behave like a neurotic, beaten dog, or like a guide dog for the blind?
FaithfullSpirit2: (not planning to make main income from writing, hubby makes the main income around here)
AmbrovZeor: Do you let your dog drag you on its walk, or command it to HEEL?
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Uh oh, I knew I was in trouble, have been trying to train my dog to heel for years, must be what's wrong with my muse.
FaithfullSpirit2: a little of both actually
Suspensewriter: Good point, Ambrov.
HOST WPLC Danie: < Romancewrtforevr: so what you're saying is... a firm plot and no deviation?
AmbrovZeor: Let your MUSE come up with the idea and then look around at all the VEHICLES you have mastered the form of packing with story, and CHOOSE THE APPROPRIATE ONE. If you choose well, with an eye to the market TRENDS (not current market -- but dynamic ongoing and ever changing but No, I'm not saying "a firm plot and no deviations" - plotting is a whole different topic from becoming a commercial artist.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: I think our guest wants people to go ahead with their questions, so as long as that doesn't get too confusing, we'll go with that.
Romancewrtforevr: Then like meandering through a maze.
AmbrovZeor: There are only a few plots -- but VEHICLES get invented all the time. (just like cars -- today it's the SUV, tomorrow the two-seater convertible?)
HOST WPLC Danie: I know Nora Roberts is character driven. I've read enough of her stuff to figure that out.
GwynnaL: JL, that sounds overly simplistic; like saying "go do a lot of research and find a cure for a disease, and you'll be rich and famous."
FaithfullSpirit2: Ambrov, my first novel is set in a small town, I have since learned that series set in the same place are selling and I like this town, so I'm using it again. Does that mean I should stress the this is a first of several in the same town?
AmbrovZeor: Did you all understand what I meant by TIME TRAVEL is a "vehicle" for Romance? Have you all then seen that "Time Travel" is the PLOT of an sf novel, and it's VEHICLE can be the ROMANCE?
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: No, I think I (at least) need more elaboration.
Suspensewriter: So you could have two versions of the movie HIGH NOON for instance... HIGH NOON itself and OUTLAND which is HIGH NOON in space.
AmbrovZeor: SUSPENSEWRITER GETS AN A FOR THE COURSE!
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: LOL! Good for you, Suspense.
Suspensewriter: The vehicle for the first is Western and the second is space travel.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: So the idea for the story is one man standing alone, for what he believes in, and then you choose your "vehicle" as Western, science fiction, etc. Is that right?
Suspensewriter: And a gold star, too?
Romancewrtforevr: So your car is a western model or sci-fi one.
AmbrovZeor: So your SF novel starts out with two people in love -- one gets kidnapped through a time portal -- the other has to figure out the science behind time portals and build one and go to the rescue.
AmbrovZeor: Yes, I think a gold star also, Suspensewriter.
GwynnaL: The Dragon and the George
AmbrovZeor: Yes, that was a GREAT book.
Romancewrtforevr: like Gabbaldon's series about Stonehenge
AmbrovZeor: Yes, Romancewriter -- GABBALDON is one writer who shot to the top of the market SIMPLY AND ONLY BECAUSE of a prior mastery of the concept VEHICLE. Now, in any commercial writing, the VEHICLE ITSELF gets almost no attention. It doesn't get explained, it's not a complication to the plot, it's not the cause of emotional storms among the characters. It is basically IGNORED.
HOST WPLC Danie: Well see I liked Jude Deveraux, A Knight in Shining Armor so much better.
AmbrovZeor: Thus an sf fan reading an Time Travel Romance like GABBALDON'S is continually frustrated because the INTERESTING thing in the story is the mechanism of the time travel, NOT the characters.
HOST WPLC Danie: Its not that I didn't give Gabbaldon's an objective read.
AmbrovZeor: Oh, KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR is one of my all-time favorite books.
Suspensewriter: BLADERUNNER = cop hunts criminals; concept vehicle is future/replicants?
AmbrovZeor: It is a perfectly constructed novel - absolutely perfect. GwynnaL: And it's why real musicians hate Modessit's Soprano Sorceress series.
HOST WPLC Danie: yes it is.
AmbrovZeor: Score another one for Suspensewriter.
AmbrovZeor: Gwynna is getting the hang of this too.
GwynnaL: But there's the rub ... when a real musician wants to write the fantasy or sf, the details get in the way, so the market reader remains ignorant.
AmbrovZeor: Gee you guys are quick - I've about made my point for the day and we've time left.
Suspensewriter: Could you look at it from the other way around, though? You take a setting or concept like time travel and place it in the "vehicle" of suspense/crime genre?
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: So you're saying a SF reader is frustrated with Gabaldon because to the SF reader, they want to know more about the time-travel mechanism, not the characters?
AmbrovZeor: Well, that's another topic - the correct use of DETAIL.
GwynnaL: suspense, it's been done on TV all the time.
AmbrovZeor: Yes, MMELIZ
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Okay, takes a while to fire up my 15-watt bulb, but eventually I get it.
GwynnaL: Seven Days, Time Cop, the Adrian Paul thing ...
AmbrovZeor: Yes, TV is a great place to study and analyze until you get the hang of what is commercial.
Suspensewriter: Yes, Gwyn, I know... but I'm wondering about definitions.
AmbrovZeor: To get on to TV you have to be more commercial than you have to be to get your book published on paper.
HOST WPLC Danie: I like that analogy.
AmbrovZeor: HIGHLANDER is another one of my favorites.
Suspensewriter: Can the genre itself be considered a vehicle?
FaithfullSpirit2: isn't genre theme?
AmbrovZeor: So TEACH YOUR MUSE to recognize VEHICLES. Then go around day and night, nonstop until it's an ingrained habit, and NOTICE vehicles.Once your MUSE learns to recognize vehicles, THEN challenge it to produce a few.
Suspensewriter: Faith - not really, genre is the type of story.
AmbrovZeor: Take one you like and pack it full of story. Don't do this with the idea of turning out something saleable. This is throwaway exercise stuff.
GwynnaL: Not too much story, though, or editors will turn you down for having no focus.
Suspensewriter: crime, romance, sci fi are genres.
AmbrovZeor: After your Muse has learned to "heel" at command, and jump into the vehicle when you're ready to travel, THEN you turn it loose to create something saleable in a particular market.
Romancewrtforevr: well, I'm back in the doldrums again, ha ha.
FaithfullSpirit2: but your theme determines the genre doesn't it?
Suspensewriter: Faith - not necessarily
GwynnaL: No, Faithfull .. theme is an underlying subject or idea that motivates the story ..
Romancewrtforevr: maybe it's the Bermuda Triangle I'm in.
AmbrovZeor: And I guarantee you if you do your exercises consistently every day, with everything you read, and train your muse, then writing that commercial novel will indeed be the MOST FUN YOU'VE EVER HAD.
Suspensewriter: You can have many themes for one genre.
GwynnaL: like fatherhood, or liberty, or power.
Romancewrtforevr: yes that's where I'm at.
AmbrovZeor: Therefore you will deliver FUN -- your ultimate payload -- to your readers, and they'll memorize your name and look for more of your books.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Romance, don't worry, we'll throw you a line. ;-)
Suspensewriter: "cop catches killer because good triumphs over evil." "Cop doesn't catch killer because evil always wins."
Suspensewriter: One genre, two themes
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: We just have a few minutes left, any more questions for our guest?
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Or comments?
AmbrovZeor: BERMUDA TRIANGLE -- now there's a VEHICLE.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: LOL! There you go, Romance!
FaithfullSpirit2: but they are both the same genre, no matter what the theme, your theme does determine what genre.
GwynnaL: No faithful, it doesn't.
GwynnaL: if cop is sheriff, it's a western. If cop is robocop, it's sf.
AmbrovZeor: DEFINITION of "Genre" -- here's one I doubt you've heard before. GENRE is determined by what you MUST LEAVE OUT, not by what you put in.
FaithfullSpirit2: Gwy, tell me that the theme of Love conquers all isn't the romance genre.
AmbrovZeor: Gwynna - yep you've got the genre-signature.
Suspensewriter: Gwyn but that's an example cross-genres.
AmbrovZeor: Notice it fits the definition I just typed.
GwynnaL: It's not, Faithful, because it's the theme of fairy tales, too.
Suspensewriter: Faith, it's not in all romances, is it?
GwynnaL: My themes often include the relationship between daughters and fathers, but I use it in sf, horror, and fantasy.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Okay, so if you have to leave out "they didn't live happily ever after" then it's a romance.
Suspensewriter: The theme could be "Love conquers all WHEN..." etc., etc.(fill in blank.)
AmbrovZeor: Here's another example. Take VAMPIRES. Until a few years ago, if it had a vampire in it, it was HORROR GENRE. Now, we have VAMPIRE ROMANCE.
AmbrovZeor: For those who keep getting cut off -- we will post the log of this chat.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Yes, and vampire romance is becoming really popular now!
AmbrovZeor: Karen will give you the URL.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: I'm logging also and can send anyone the log, just e-mail me afterward.
AmbrovZeor: Actually, VAMPIRE ROMANCE has peaked in Manhattan publishing, but is thriving in e-book.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Or e-mail HOST WPLC Danie.
KMacLEOD323: When I have it, I'll share with Danie and Madame Liz.
Nsummers882: I have some real character romance in my novel but the mystery and the ghost that reveals the truth to the main character is the part of the theme. also she grows and learns how miss leading religion is and she learns real faith In God is the truth not man's teachings in religion.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Thanks, Karen.
AmbrovZeor: I expect another great thrust upwards in VAMPIRE "vehicle" stories invading all other genres.
Suspensewriter: I think this is especially good for romance writers because that's a genre in need of more varying vehicles these days because the plots (IMO although I haven't read more than two) are more limited and formulaic.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Oh really? That's interesting. A vampire mystery or western?
Nsummers882: I say my genre is a mystery/paranormal thriller.
Romancewrtforevr: my vehicle is broke down! Needs a mechanic! Help me someone.
Suspensewriter: Nsummers - or it's a mystery thriller riding on a paranormal vehicle.
AmbrovZeor: Cross-genre is thriving in the e-book field -- so I expect to see more of it. You all should read my article on BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER in the forthcoming book SEVEN SEASONS OF BUFFY.
Nsummers882: suspense that could be it.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Sounds interesting. When will it be out, what format? AmbrovZeor: It is being released in October at the same time as my vampire romance THOSE OF MY BLOOD.
Nsummers882: Ambrov I'm not going e pub. I really want it to be a movie.
AmbrovZeor: Both are from BenBella Books. You can find them on Amazon with title search.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Give us your URL please, JL, so everyone can read more about you!
AmbrovZeor: Or see http://www.simegen.com/jl/ my home page, click on IN PRINT and you'll find it all (more than you'd ever want!).
Suspensewriter: Nsummers - are you turning it into a screenplay?
AmbrovZeor: If you don't want to go e-pub - then you MUST avoid cross-genre.
Nsummers882: I want it to be
AmbrovZeor: Here's a story - a real story. Let's see if I can do it in 5 minutes.
Nsummers882: No Ambrov you are wrong.
AmbrovZeor: My writing partner, Jean Lorrah, has a vampire romance detective cross-genre novel that won two awards in e-book and got picked up for trade paperback by a serious publisher.
Suspensewriter: Get ready for an uphill climb, Nsum; screenwriting is extremely competitive and structure is of paramount importance.
AmbrovZeor: It has shot to the 5 or 6 thousand level on Amazon and settled at 7K. Here's the story. The COVER for the e-book was TERRIBLE - dark, a house in flames in the background -- vapid and just not a "seller."
Nsummers882: sorry I spent a whole day on the phone agents and publishers quote is NEW, Fresh, ideas not same old, one guy said don't let some old cotton top make you think you need to be a literary genius to write a book we will buy a poor written new good plot before any day than perfect written. We don't want our readers to be sitting in their seats we want the on the edge of it.
AmbrovZeor: The real publisher commissioned original art from a known cover artist -- got a collage of I think it was 4 characters. The publisher sent that to the distributor for the catalog and got it heaved back in his face. TOTALLY REJECTED BY THE DISTRIBUTOR after the publisher accepted it as literarily correct for that novel. Why did the distributor reject this cover? BECAUSE IT WAS CROSS GENRE. It had a vampire, good guy, bad vampire, and a woman indicating a love-story. NO, NO, NO they screamed. We will not allow that in our catalog. OK says the publisher and goes back to the artist who had to choose ONE FACE and cut it out and blow it up to make the whole cover. And in consultation with the DISTRIBUTOR they chose the vampire MONSTER for the cover.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Would be hard to pick just one.
Nsummers882: Ambrov that is only one situation.
AmbrovZeor: The title of the book is BLOOD WILL TELL and it's by Jean Lorrah. You can see the cover on Amazon or on benbellabooks.com
GwynnaL: from someone who's been around the biz a lot longer than you have, Summer.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Very interesting, JL.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Thanks so much for being our guest today.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: We've really enjoyed it!
AmbrovZeor: It is NOT only one situation. If you believe that, you will sell yes, but not consistently and not on purpose. Understanding MARKETING (like in a business degree) is part of being a writer.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Let's have a round of applause for our guest!
HOST WPLC Danie: applauding
Nsummers882: Yes, I know this but this is what the editors told me is hurting people though, good plot beats all, action thrillers do not have the same rules as romance.
Suspensewriter: Thank you, Ambrov.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: If anyone wants or needs a copy of the log, e-mail me or Danie and we'll get it to you.
GwynnaL: Thanks for your time, JL. Now I have to put some time in on my writing!
AmbrovZeor: Nsummers - yes, you must learn the rules for each market you want to hit.
KMacLEOD323: JL wants it posted on Simegen.com, and we'll also be doing thatand letting your Hosts know where it is.
Nsummers882: Thank you, Ambrov.
AmbrovZeor: Hey you guys are great too - CLAPS<><><><><> to you all too!:-)See my July release SIME~GEN THE UNITY TRILOGY. 3 books done exactly as I've described -- reprinted after many, many years. How did that happen? By understanding VEHICLES and training the muse to use them.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Next week, Karen MacLeod, Editor for NovelBooks, Inc. and Editorial Consultant for Sime~Gen, Inc., will talk about "Query Letters and Synopses."
AmbrovZeor: I didn't make this stuff up. I learned it at the feet of masters.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Be sure to visit http://www.elizabethdelisi.com *first* and click on the "Monthly Articles" button at the bottom, to read Karen's article with lots of the info she'll elaborate on in the chat.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: See you then!
AmbrovZeor: bye!
Nsummers882: Ambrov, how many book have you had published?
AmbrovZeor: 19 or more depending on how you count.
Nsummers882: what genre do you write in?
AmbrovZeor: sf fantasy -- nonfiction and Tarot. Also reprints in other languages.
Nsummers882: cool
AmbrovZeor: Bibliography link is on http://www.simegen.com/jl/
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Ooh, Tarot! My mystery with a psychic heroine who reads Tarot is coming out in July, first in a series.
Nsummers882: do you have an agent?
KMacLEOD323: JL has had published works out since 1974 I think.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Will have to look for your Tarot books too!
AmbrovZeor: Yes, I have a film agent and a book agent. You can find all my stuff on Amazon - just put my name in the search engine.
Nsummers882: do you write screen too?
AmbrovZeor: I have two scripts circulating -- VERY good results but no actual productions yet.
Nsummers882: I want so bad to have "Thunder" made into a movie but my stomachturns at the thought of now writing it as a script.
AmbrovZeor: Again, the log of this chat will be posted with hotlinks. Karen will give you the URL.
HOST WPLC MmeLiz: Thanks again for coming. We're over time here, so it's time to say goodbye. Thanks, JL!
AmbrovZeor: BYE!
Nsummers882: I also will have a hard time not directing it, lol. Well bye everyone
AmbrovZeor: I've someone else waiting to chat in another window - I gotta go. Bye.