Session Start: Sun Jun 18 14:57:40 2000
<JL> OK, now we're ready to begin. I made up a list of questions to put to the panel -- Sharon and Bonnee
have seen them but I'll start off.
<Bonnee> Works for me if it works for everyone else
<JL> So, what is the most often traveled path to a career in editing?
<Sharon> re the path to being an editor, I may not be the best example. Don Wollheim, then editor-in-chief at Ace, hired me because I could read and write English. I did not have a college degree in Enlish or Literature but in Fine Art.
<Sharon> Most editors are expected to edit different kinds of books although they specialize in certain categories. The method of editing is always the same, no matter what kind of book is being edited, although it's different for fiction as opposed to non-fiction. Someone at a publishing company who will hire you. I ended up specializing in science fiction, fantasy, horror and the occult because these were my areas of interest. I was already very familiar with all the books published in these fields. A lot of editors end up specializing for this reason.
That's it. The only way to get a job as an editor is to apply for one. If you don't have any experience, try to get a position as an editor's assistant or secretary.
<JL> Bonnee -- how did you get into editing?
<Bonnee> I came in through the back door... I'd begun as a writer. Unfortunately, I didn't have the talent the rest of you have. My talent lies in the ability to take a story and make it better, whether it's by suggesting
a new twist or line editing or something like that. Let's be frank. Editing is the job that's the most necessary but also the most feared and, yes, I'll say it...Hated job in publishing. Authors hate turning over their babies to an editor and publishers need us to get them books for the least amount of money involved. Both sides need us, but they also fear (?) us. We're underpaid and overworked. Yet we do this because we absolutely and without hesitation love books. We want to find the next bestseller in every manuscript we pick up. Our goal is never to reject as many as possible, but to make that dream come true for authors. If we didn't love books, we surely wouldn't be here. So, how do you become an editor? Adoring books is the biggest priority.
<Sharon> You can work your way up into the position by doing other things at a publishing company. First I was a proofreader, then a copyeditor, copywriter, etc.
<Bonnee> Then you apply at a publishing house and hope you can get the chance to show them that you know, what you're doing.
<Sharon> As a result, certain editors are now known for their specialties. In Romance, there's Kate Duffy. She's always edited romances no matter what publisher she worked for. Ditto for Westerns; there's Pat LoBrutto (but primarily known for science fiction) and Gary Goldstein. In mystery, there's Michael Seidman. They have
made careers in these fields but can edit other kinds of books too.
<Bonnee> And there are a few of the top senior editors at Harlequin who've also made careers out of one genre.
<Sharon> When I was an editor, I never felt hated. In fact, most authors fawn on editors. Only an editor has the power to bring your manuscript to the editing meeting and say, "let's buy this book."
<Bonnee> True, Sharon, but I came in from the writer's side and in writing groups, I heard about the "editors from hell" <g> No author would be crazy enough to state that publicly, but there are editors that authors don't like working with.
<JL> How much of the editor's decision-making about which
properties to acquire is based sheerly and only on commercial potential
(# copies that should sell) as opposed to "This is a book that
"ought" to be published!" or "This book will change
this genre overnight!" Has that percentage of the decision-making
factor changed over the last 20 years?
<Bonnee> In terms of commercial potential?
<JL> Yes, commercial potential.
<Bonnee> I think it's much more important in print publishing. A major factor, in fact. They can't afford for a book to lose money.
<Karen> Well, for our fanzines we always did the high standards thing....
<Sharon> I agree that many younger editors are on power trips.
<Bonnee> Epublishing is a different story, though, because the overhead of production is lower. LOL! But I do agree with the high quality. I tell my writers flat-out that I'll take no less than the highest quality they can offer.
<Sharon> The decision to acquire a book is first based on the editor's personal opinion of the author's talent and if a book is a page turner. Then the editor estimates how the book will sell based on calculated guesses.
<Sharon> Part of that is guessing how many copies will sell, if the book will be picked up for reprint, book club, foreign sales, etc. Nowadays, the major publishers are interested only in books that will sell 10,000 copies in hardcover. So new authors are hardest hit. The decision-making...In science fiction/fantasy, there are cycles. A lot of companies are still looking for good "hard" sf. The majority also want big books, that is, 100,000 words or more. The trend to larger books has hit almost every genre. I can't think of many if any literary agents who became editors. It's usually the other way around. With all these mergers, editors are out of a job and think they can make a living as an agent. Both JLs say there is a problem with the e-publishers having good editors. But I think it's because the field is so new. The decision-making factors have changed quite a bit, along with the bottom line. Occasionally books that "ought" to be published certainly are, but the majority are published because they will (1) sell with little or no advertising, (2) have famous names attached to them, (3) are based on a movie, TV show, comic book, etc.
<JL> What about an editor who has to deal with Agents on a regular basis? Do editors respect an agent's skills -- and if so, what skill-set? How do you become an agent? What credentials do you need? How do you develop a client list? How do you keep a client list? How do you choose who you will represent and who not? What is the Agent's life like, from day to day, dealing with editors and writers?
<Sharon> Re e-publishing, it occurs to me they can't find good editors because they have little or no money to pay. So far, very little money changes hands with e-publishing.
<JL> Bonnee -- you can address that.
<Bonnee> Actually, the money that changes hands goes to the authors... <g>
<Sharon> All editors are used to dealing with agents. The problem is
that small presses aren't used to that. As an agent, I hate dealing with small presses. Their contracts are often unprofessional. They also pay little or no money.
<JL> How does someone become an agent?
<Sharon>Just by saying so. There are no requirements, no credentials. However, to be listed in the Literary Market Place as as agent, you must have at least 3 sales to legitimate publishers.
<Sharon> Also, I think to join the agent's assn you have to get recommendations from 2 existing members, and that's hard if no one knows you. Developing a client list is easy--everyone is desperate to get published. I get mail on a daily basis from authors. I choose only those who have a commercial product
<JL>Bonnee -- what about the money in e-publishing? Does it really get to the authors?
<Bonnee> Because we pay such high royalties to authors, there isn't much left for staffing and production. Yes, our authors are paid quarterly and get the lion's share of all profits that come into our company.
<Bonnee> So, yes, I agree that editors are hard to find in epublishing because I can't afford to put them on a salary. Promotion.
<JL> Do authors have to pay for their own promotion in e-publishing?
<Bonnee>Yes, the authors do the majority of the promotion. Again, it comes down to money. I have a choice of paying them less and doing the advertising myself or paying them more and letting them control their career. I prefer to leave that to them simply because there are some who are happy to just be published. They don't care if they sell 100 or 1,000 copies. They just wanted their book published. Then there are others who promote the heck out of themselves and their books. They're interested in building a career and are willing to promote in order to do that.
<Karen> And how does someone with 20 plus years of fan editing, break into regular publishing/editing, which is what I'm trying to do.
<Sharon> Your years of fan editing do count as your credentials. Don't you put all that on your resume?
<Karen> Yes, I did....hasn't gotten me anywhere.
<Sharon> I'm surprised. What about getting in on a lower level? Do you get the same reactions?
<Bonnee> And, yes, Karen, editing is editing. It should count.
<Karen> I have my resume all over the internet, and no nibbles,.
<Sharon> Do you use the word "fan" anywhere? Maybe that's the problem; fandom gets no respect.
<Bonnee> Agreed. Fanfic doesn't garner a whole lot of respect in the industry. So don't use the "fan", just state that you've
been editing for 20+ years as an independent contractor.
<JL> Bonnee -- do you think that authors will be PAYING editors directly before going to the e-publisher with product? Will the STRUCTURE of this whole thing change that much?
<Bonnee> No, I don't think authors will or even _should_ be paying for editors before they submit.
<Bonnee> I edit all our books and there's no charge for the service. It's part of the service and actually a mandatory step in publishing with our company.
<Karen> I don't think the word "fan" is entered on my resume. I'd have to check.
<JL> When will the e-publishers be able to hire staff editors, then?
<JL> In other words, how many copies do titles have to average before you can put on a staff editor?
<Bonnee> A lot. <g> What we're building at our company is a reputation for good books.
<JL> Yes, Karen -- language counts in this -- fanzines are actually "small press" --
<Karen> When I get my computer back, I can send you the resume. We mentioned "amateur publication" into one which became well respected.
<Sharon> How about using "editor of the only official publications of sime/gen enterprises"? Maybe the word amateur is the problem.
<Bonnee> Amateur is a death word. Independent contractor is better. Whether you're paid or not is up to you, but amateur says that you don't consider it a professional job.
<JL> Sharon has a point there, Karen.
<Karen> That might be the answer. I'll have to double check my resume and see just what the wording is. It was Anne
Pinzow who helped word the resume. We can always change it.
<Bonnee> I've been an independent contractor in many jobs for about 15 years now. <g> I learned quickly that volunteer or amateur are the kiss of death. Volunteer is okay for an avocation, but never amateur. That signifies someone who does it for free because they can't get someone to pay them
<JL> So then you parlee your fan work into prof work by altering the language you use to refer to it?
<Karen> Well, I can always change what's on the web.
<Bonnee> Yup. <g>
<JL> It's what Sharon said earlier -- that you have to SHOW what you can do?
<Bonnee> Exactly. And the correct wording will prove it
<Sharon> That's because it's not a paying job--another fact no one has to know.
<Bonnee> Exactly. The only one who has to know is you and your bank account.
<Sharon> It's the same as getting your stories published in little magazines that don't pay. No one has to know that. All they have to know is that you got professionally published.
<Sharon> Yes, Karen, alter the language. You're not lying, you're just putting
it in terms they'll understand.
<JL> Ed our moderator has a question -- how can you make money on E-books when electronic form allows a thing to be sent all over the world in e-files to friends? One person buys a book, and suddenly it's 40 people reading it for free.
<Bonnee> Actually, what we do is try to shame the customers into paying. Our books are cheaper than anything other than a Harlequin. I'm hoping they'd be too ashamed not to pay.
<JL> Actually, readers bear the costs of downloading, storing on disk, wear-n-tear on the machine, or printing. It often costs the reader MORE, but they don't notice.
<Sharon> You need encrypted softward that prevents it from being forwarded.
<Bonnee> I just had a customer who bought 7 full-length books for under $40. You can't get that in a physical bookstore
<Bonnee> Our files are encrypted to a degree, but also, if you add too much security, no one will want all those extra steps just to read
<JL> Xerox has just announced a way of digimarking text files -- but I'm sure it will be expensive.
<Bonnee> SoftLock does it. But their initial cost is almost $50 per title. When we first opened our doors, we had our own encryption program that was free.
<Sharon> That's not going to totally work. Spend the money to get the software.
<Bonnee> The customers hated it because it now meant two downloads and extra programming
<JL> How many copies do you have to sell, to afford an overhead of $50/title?
<Bonnee> With no other costs involved, almost 100
<JL> I think that's the key to making e-publishing work -- the sheer number of people in the market for e-works.
<Sharon> I'm not a techie and I don't know how it works, but there are programs that allow you to download but not to copy and upload it.
<Bonnee> Our books all have copyright info. They're encrypted so the file can't be changed. If someone uploaded them to a site, I bet we'd hear about it within 24 hours and we'd have the perpetrator arrested inside another 24
<Sharon> Nuts to the extra steps; I know people get impatient, but you need to protect your work. Copyright in cyberspace is still a gray area.
<Bonnee> The Internet is huge, but never that big <g>
<Sharon> My lawyer is very much afraid of allowing original material to appear on sites that don't have that extra encryption.
<EdWord> Sharon, no need to copy. Just print/scan/send. And authors lose money. And I can download 7 books of info in about 10 minutes.
<JL> How much of this tech-support for copy-prevention is PUBLISHER's business -- and how much of it actually belongs to the EDITOR's job?
<Bonnee> Sharon, no, it's not gray. The books are copyrighted. That's all they need for us to prosecute. That's the publishing side and very little to do with me, unless we're talking stuff in the contracts. Course, I can tell you that authors are paranoid about their works anyway. I know people who copyright before they submit.
<JL> Yes, but is prosecution cost-effective? With such a low number of copies being sold, do you have a margin worth protecting with thousands of dollars in lawyer's fees? And are courts taking these cases seriously yet?
<Sharon> By the way, I'm not sure how their overhead can be $50 a title when I as a small press can produce bound books for $4 apiece or less.
<Bonnee> Because we still have to pay out royalties, plus a percentage goes to the graphic artist, etc
<Sharon> I thought that trying to print an entire book, which downloads without any formatting, is something most people don't want to do.
<Bonnee> Most of our "staff" members are paid on percentage or commission. They don't receive a flat-out fee for a cover design. True, most people don't print out the books. To be honest, I haven't worked out individual figures to see what percentage can be considered profit on any given title. I work with the whole catalog and total figures.
<JL> Sharon raises a good point here -- that is in the editor's domain - figuring the cost-per-copy of a book. How much of the decision to make an offer on a MS is made on what the cover price would have to be?
<Bonnee> We started breaking even and actually paying our bills after the first year
<Sharon> You must register a book with the copyright office to get full legal protection and to sue for damages, which go up to $50,000 per infringement.
<Bonnee> I recommend all our authors to file with the U.S. Copyright Office. That's standard policy for us to recommend they do so
<JL> Sharon -- I get e-books to review all the time, and print them 9-point, two column justified, two sides of the paper -- shrinking a 400 page book to 50pages to read, and I LOVE it because I control the format.
<Bonnee> Yes, but we have customers who can't read a 9-pitch font. I have one regular customer who's blind.
<Karen> That's where books on tape comes in.
<JL> Now that's the power of the e-book. Everyone gets their OWN favorite format.
<Bonnee> No, even cheaper are text-to-voice programs
<JL> But format doesn't help unless the editing has been done properly.
<Bonnee> Adobe just came out with a text-to-voice program for PDF files and it works! Agreed... bottom line is, especially in epublishing, editing is going to make or break your company.
<JL> E-book is definitely the future of this industry -- but only if the editing quality is equal to the writing quality. And it won't be until editors can make a living at editing.
<Bonnee> A damn good story with good editing will give you a good reputation and customers will come back. Bad editing will lost customers, if not on their first book, then certainly on a second. Agreed, JL. And that's why I tend to work 10 hours a day.... <g>
<JL> Right now, many authors are working essentially for free.
<Bonnee> Well, I know a lot of people have asked how much money can be made in epublishing.
<JL> SFWA just did a survey and found NOBODY has yet made the price of a lobster dinner for 2 out of an e-book (no writer that is). Editors seem to be working for even less.
<Bonnee> My response to that is to ask how many print writers actually make a living at it? <g>
<JL> We have to make a living from this or we can't continue to do it. Actually, until the net destroyed paper publishing, quite a few have been full time writers.
<Bonnee> Then you didn't survey our people. I have several who are probably coming close to making $1000 on their books
<JL> Now that's a GREAT statistic. Thank you.
<Sharon> Unfortunatetly, since e-publishing is just beginning, it's hard for anyone to make money yet. Also, everyone is jumping into it with both feet.
<Bonnee> Is that a living? No, but it's a nice secondary income on a book that was rejected over and over by print publishers
<Sharon> By the way, the average yearly income for any given writer is $5000 (same as any actor).
<Bonnee> And I'd LOVE to meet the person who can live a whole year on $5000 <g>
<JL> OK, Sharon - what about books a paper editor HAS to reject because they won't sell 10,000 copies in hc -- are all those books totally unreadable and worthless? Or can they find a niche on the web?
<Sharon> $1000 on their books is excellent.
<JL> That $5,000 figure hasn't moved in over 10 years but inflation has.
<Bonnee> Exactly. <g> And, btw, I'll clarify and say that I also have authors who haven't made that lobster dinner. This all comes back to what I said about promotion.
<Sharon> I'm curious, what's the standard length of Bonnee's titles?
<Bonnee> I pay more and leave the majority of promo to the authors. Standard? Probably about 70,000-80,000 words. I have some a lot shorter and a few a lot longer. Length doesn't matter in epublishing.
<Sharon> Those rejected books can certainly find a niche with small presses. There are tons of small to middle paper publishers. I recommend you do a book in hard copy first, if you can, then e-book. Only a few original e-book
authors have made the transition the other way around.
<JL> So authors -- to make the $1,000 royalty -- need to go hire someone to do publicity -- because they can't do all that work AND write 5 books a year, too, just to make an average income (and what about their day-jobs?)
<Sharon> Paper publishers leave the majority of promo to their authors too.
<Bonnee> The number might grow, though, Sharon
<Sharon> But books are priced according to size, aren't they? Same as paper publishers?
<Bonnee> Right now, Doubleday Direct (think Book-of-the-Month club) is actively talking with epublishers. Yes, we price according to length and marketing
<Sharon> That's a good-sized book (70-80,000).
<Bonnee> Our erotic romance is probably our highest selling category, so the price is a little bit higher. Most of the books submitted are probably 75-100,000 words.
<JL> We haven't touched on contract negotiation. Editors have some power over contract terms. In e-publishing, apparently who does the promo is a contract term. What about items like PRINT ON DEMAND -- SFWA for example is leery of Print on Demand terms in contracts because the rights will never revert by being Out-of-Print. What about foreign rights - e-books sell across borders, so do you buy world rights?
<Bonnee> I agree with SFWA. We contract for world rights because, you're right, we don't have borders. But we contract for electronic rights only. I tell authors to beware of an epub who wants print rights, but, of course, I tell them to be wary of print pubs who want e-rights. If you can't produce in that format, then you shouldn't ask for it.
<JL> Ordinarily, each of those rights would mean an additional percentage to the author -- is it fair to say that in epublishing the author's already high percentage simply covers all those sub-rights that are grabbed?
<Sharon> It's my experience that editors at paper publishers do all the negotiating for contracts, but the lawyers have the last word.
<Bonnee> Subsidiary rights is a whole 'nother story. I don't think anyone should ever sign away any rights to anyone who won't use them
<JL> Do epublishers even have a legal staff?
<Bonnee> Some do. I don't. I negotiate all by my lonesome. <g> I try to keep my contract simple and straightforward. I don't ask for anything I won't use. And only include those things I can provide. Pretty simple.
<JL> So what about SIZE of the operation. Compared to say, Doubleday, which has to carry all that overhead of legal staff, downtown offices, editors and secretaries, how big can you get with only a few people doing everything? How many titles per year can you publish without going to hiring staff?
<Bonnee> We've done pretty good so far, but we are at the point where we need to expand and bring on more staff.
<JL> So how many titles a year are you doing now?
<Bonnee> Ideally, I can probably publish about 40 books per year. But how many are published are all determined by the quality of the submissions.
<JL> And that nets how much of a margin? Are you making what a secretary would make?
<Bonnee> I'd rather go two months without releasing a new title than publish one that's less than 100%. Standard epublishing contracts are for 25-50% royalties. So we only get to keep about half of what comes in.
<JL> OK, then one limiting factor on hiring editors is how many decent, usable submissions you get?
<Bonnee> Yes. Don't need editors if there are no books. Now, how much do I make? That's hard to say. I haven't actually pulled a "draw" from the business.
<JL> So it's a bootstrap operation -- you need good books to get loyal book-buyers, and you need lots more buyers to get really GOOD authors to part with their MS's.
<Bonnee> But I have had all expenses paid to several conferences.
<JL> So the business is doing well, but staff is working for no salary? But you're building a backlist.
<Bonnee> Believe me, the authors aren't a problem. I've got some top-notch authors on board, like Diana Gabaldon, Parke Godwin, Sherrilyn Kenyon, Susan Sizemore, Jody Lyn Nye...
<JL> Sharon -- what is the average today for a book staying in print -- do you know? And Bonnee -- what about movie rights?
How long do you keep a book in Electrons (print=electrons?)
<Bonnee> Yes, the business is doing well, but we put all profits back into the business. We're still new, so we want to build some working capital in order to create budgets for more staff and advertising.
<JL> Advertising for the website - not for individual titles?
<Bonnee> A book stays in "print" for as long as the author wants. Our initial contract is 6 months, then renewable annually. Yes, for the site as a whole.
<JL> I haven't seen any banner ads on Yahoo for individual BOOKS -- and precious few for e-pubishers.
<Bonnee> We have books that have been selling for two years and others that were pulled after the initial six months. We haven't done much with banners, though a LOT of people have asked us for price lists to carry theirs. <g>
<JL> So as an editor, you also have to deal with authors renewing availability of titles - that's another whole secretary's job if you're doing a full 40 titles a year.
<Bonnee> Yup, it sure is. And, as I tell everyone when it's royalty-time, I HATE paperwork. <g>
<JL> There are some serious growth size constraints I see in this business.
<Bonnee> OTOH, I will be looking to take on an accountant this summer.
<JL> That royalty paperwork should be another whole department -- not an editor's job, except to authorize the initial checks.
My next question is about the life an editor lives.
<Bonnee> That's what I want. Delegate some of the paperwork off my desk so I can just edit. <g>
<JL> In paper publishing it's hectic as crazy can be -- but it seems e-publishing is even worse. Let me post Sharon's comment on that.
<Sharon> Be warned, an agent's life is utter chaos. Where's my check? Why can't you sell my book? JL is right. To be an editor or agent you must be a reader first. And if you don't know the history of a genre, how will you know if it's been done before or if the time is right to do it again?
<Sharon> Things may have changed in that an editor can work up to editor-in-chief, vice president, etc. When I was editing, it was very difficult. The only way to get a raise was to change jobs and companies. You don't need degrees, your experience is your credential. However, if you want to go into the business end of publishing, then I think you need a degree in business administration.
<Sharon> I have already founded my own publishing company; I began it when I couldnt' get a client's book into print, so I did it myself. There are tremendous drawbacks to small press publishing, self publishing, etc., that have to do with book distribution. Because there are something like 10,000 small presses (includes self publishers), bookstores can't deal with individual companies because of overwhelming paperwork. They want to deal with middlemen like wholesalers and distributors. I have had 3 distributors and they all stole from me, so now I am developing other sales channels. That is why many small presses go bankrupt. I'm still here by dint of will power. Also switched entirely to instant print. This way I don't have to come up with $7000 to print 3000 copies and figure out where to store them. I only need $1750 to print 300 copies (includes the design fee and the printing fee) of a small book.
<JL>Print-on-demand and e-books are the future of publishing. If you want to start your own company, though, there's more that goes into it than you realize.
<Sharon> You still don't want 300 copies of your book piled in the kitchen.
<JL> Now the small press in paper publishing is awfully much like the e-publisher of today -- when it comes to staff, hiring, margins, number of titles, size constraints etc.
<Karen> Sounds like the 300 print runs of the fanzines we did, which lasted forever. <grin>
<JL> Yes, and other fanzines that printed 1,000 and had to be reprinted in 6 months.
<Bonnee> Trust me, you don't really want to know about my life. <g>
<Bonnee> I can be editing a book (after checking email and fulfilling orders) and have a bookstore on the phone checking availability, the next phone call is an author wanting to send me a new book, the next phone call is a reader who simply can't bring herself to type what she wants about what she's just read. And then, in the middle of all this chaos, I get a tone for the Fire Dept for a medical emergency. Yes, I'm a firefighter and an EMT in what some people call my spare time <g>. OTOH, when people ask me how I can do that, I simply say it keeps me sane <g>. One of the reasons I take summers off...Is because my daughters are 8 & 10. When they're out of school, my time is theirs. It's hard to keep a business running with them underfoot, so I take two months every year to catch up with what's on my desk and recharge the mental batteries. Not that I totally stop working. That doesn't happen. I still have 6 books that need to be edited by the 15th of July and 5 submissions that I have to read as potential contract books by the end of July. THEN I get to kick off my shoes. Oh, and don't forget the Frankfurt Award. I have 10 books to nominate by August 1st and send in both the digital copy and a hard copy. And let's not forget RWA National conference, for which I get the honor of donating copies for their Literacy Signing. How's that for an idea of what it's like. <g> It's crazy and impossible and yet it somehow all comes together when needed.
<Bonnee> And I love it.... <sigh>
<JL> That's a vivid sketch! But how long can you keep this up? What happens to the company when you take a sick day?
<Bonnee> Sick? Can't afford to get sick. Only once was I totally down and out. Spent three days in bed with the flu and Silke picked up the pieces, but the administrative part fell behind. But we're also used to that because it happens every time I attend a conference. I made a rule about those because they were getting out of hand.
<Sharon> I would like to add my views of the future of publishing. I still feel that paper publishing and e-publishing have to go hand in hand. People still want to read a "real" book as opposed to a monitor.
<Bonnee> I agree in that, until someone comes up with a portable machine that will read as well as check email and process letters, etc
<Karen> I agree with Sharon. I'd still rather hold a book than read it off the screen. Same goes for editing submissions to A COMPANION IN ZEOR.
<Bonnee> Ebooks will never take off like they _could_. But I honestly think that day will happen in the next 5 years.
<Sharon> Perhaps Bonnee wants to talk to me about an arrangement so that her most popular authors have bound books available for other areas of sales such as foreign, book clubs, movie options, etc? I think these other areas will take years to make any kind of transition to e-publishing.
<Bonnee> I'd be happy to chat, Sharon. <g> I've said from the beginning that print publishers will use epublishing as a test market. Try new books on the Net and then bring them out in print if the numbers warrant a print run.
<Sharon> I'm also talking with another e company about the same thing.
<Bonnee> Yes, the numbers in epublishing will probably stay smaller, but it can be a really good thing to see print and epub working together as opposed to trying to compete with one another.
<Sharon> They have been dabbling in it and find that only certain books sell in hard copy (and vice versa). The reason I want to pursue this is the ease and cheapness of print on demand. Both kinds of books can easily publicize each other. DAW books now come out with their web site printed on the cover.
<JL> DAW is an sf publisher, founded by Donald Wolheim and now run by his daughter. A unique outfit. Her husband works there -- Don's wife worked there.
DAW is a family company.
<Bonnee> Agreed. Print publishers are dabbling, but the print pubs don't understand the Internet mentality and they're
not using the Internet to it's potential. It's more than a place to advertise. My partner just came back from holiday in the Maldives.
<Sharon> Seems to me that e-publishers should be able to create subscription lists: people who want the hard copy of the e book automatically.
<Bonnee> When a couple locals asked her what she did, she was telling them about our business. The nearest bookstore for them is a plane ride of 50 miles away. They were delighted to learn they could get books on the Internet. We have a customer in Australia who lives in the outback. Her nearest bookstore is 100 miles away and she goes once a year. She knows she misses a LOT of books because of the short shelf life. Now she buys from us on a regular basis because she doesn't have to travel at all.
<Karen> Someone would do really well to open a used book store there, then.
<Bonnee> Actually, it's been done. There are several. But the problem is getting the stock and you have to add shipping costs.
<Sharon> Like I said, everybody's jumping in the water, but few can swim.
<Bonnee> If you've ever sent anything to Australia, you'd realize how expensive that can be. But a download costs nothing more than a connect charge.
<JL> We have a lot of folks in Australia in Sime~Gen Inc.
<Bonnee> Exactly,Sharon. That's why I said print publishers are screwing it up. They don't understand how to make the Internet work for them.
<JL> So how should a print publisher make the internet work for
them?
<Bonnee> They'd be better off creating a partnership with an epublisher than trying to come in and shut them down. We've already done the tests. We know what's selling. We know who
our buyers are.
<Sharon> I'm putting toes in the water. I want to get it right the first time.
<Bonnee> They've got the money for us to expand that knowledge, but don't try to do it for us.
<Sharon> That's what I've been trying to do!!
<Bonnee> I don't know who you've been talking to, Sharon. Some are open to the idea, and some aren't.
<JL> Small presses DON'T have the MONEY -- that's the problem. They've got the same binding constraints I was discussing
earlier in epublishing.
<Bonnee> I discussed this idea with Kate Duffy and she was all excited. Yes, we are all under the same constraints. That's the problem. The big publishers have the money and we have the knowledge. But trying to tell them that is like talking to a wall. <g> To be honest, I don't want to sell them my company because they don't understand how it works. A partnership, though, would be beneficial to both parties.
<Sharon> So far I've been in contact with one new e-company but only because a friend just became a partner in it. I've been trying for weeks to find out if they want to do co-publishing, with no luck.
<Bonnee> Email me with your ideas, Sharon. I'll at least give you a direction to head. I can promise that. If I can't help you, I probably know someone who can. That's the other weird thing about epublishing. We actually talk to each other. <g> Because none of us hold our authors to an exclusive contract with us, we're already forced to share their books. We also know we have to talk to each other about potential ideas and contacts if we're going to survive. Like I said, print publishers wouldn't think of doing this and that's why they fail. I'll help as much as I can if I can't fulfill her need. Whew! I got on a roll there for a minute... <g>
<JL> OK, here's my idea of how this whole publishing mess will break open. I think the explosion of new people onto the internet will provide the readership, and as the # of copies
sold of each title grows, you'll get better and better MS's submitted -- but even the BEST authors desperately NEED a great editor, and great editors are expensive, and great editing of a MS takes TIME. Time=$$$ -- so publishers on the web MUST start doing professional promotion of individual titles to targeted audiences. That's a whole DEPARTMENT of a company. Yes, and we've run overtime again.
<Bonnee> We always do... <g> Good summation, JL.
<Sharon> I agree that we have to work this out so we all can survive. Remind the writers that my press does how-to books for writers among other things. They can see our titles in more detail at:
www.laceyville.com/Toad-Hall
<Bonnee> And everyone can check the wonderful books I get the honor of editing at
www.dreams-unlimited.com
<Sharon> I'm in the middle of making arrangements with a marketing person to sell my books via traditional channels as well as on the net. I'll let you know what she proposes.
<Bonnee> Best of luck with that, Sharon!
<JL> Good - and one of these days these editing lessons will become part of a book on writing.
<Bonnee> Do let me know when that happens. I'll have to get a copy. <G>
<JL> But meanwhile, this course will be the basis of the Editing Circle,
our WorldCrafters Guild critique group at http://www.simegen.com/school/studentshowcase/circle/
You and Sharon may end up publishing our book on writing! It's for sure going to need a great editor!
<Bonnee> LOL! Be happy to look at it.
<Sharon> It would fit right in with the other titles
<Bonnee> Thanks so much and thank you especially JL for inviting me to SimeGen's
WorldCrafters Guild.
<JL> THANK YOU both for coming!!! And thank you for all your hard work on this course, Bonnee.
<Karen> Bye everyone.
Session Close: Sun Jun 18 17:09:41 2000
