This is a log of an IRC discussion between Jacqueline Lichtenberg and Jean Lorrah

If you haven't seen STAR WARS: The Phantom Menace, come to class anyway because we will range FAR from this starting point.  If we have time, at the end of class, we may discuss conflict and plot=because with Marge Robbins who has just managed to grab hold of that concept. 

To trace Marge's development as a writer read her stories.  

Session Start: Sun Jul 04 11:47:31 1999
*Marge* Hi JL
*Marge* We're chatting in #sgchat
*JL`* We're chatting in #sgchat
*JL`* chatting in #sgchat
*Marge* We're chatting in #sgchat
*JL`* Everyone log into #sgchat
*JL`* OK, I have an announcement/warning.
*JL`* I'll be going to Shore Leave (ST con) next weekend, and have appointments slated for Monday -- must-do stuff. Chance is good I won't get Assignment 5's commented on until mid-week. Each one takes HOURS for me to do.
*Jean* Me, too--I can maybe do two per day.
*Jean* It's exhausting work, trying to find ways to explain.
*JL`* Nevertheless, the STUDENT DEADLINE is still Sunday.
*JL`* And you go on to Assignment 6 while we struggle with commenting on #5.
*Jean* Assignment 6 is even harder.
*JL`* OK, Jean - where were we when we interrupted ourselves on the unmemorability of THE PHANTOM MENACE?
*JL`* Internal conflict?
*Jean* We are still dealing with the basic concept of conflict.
*Jean* 6 is internal.
*Jean* 4 was external.
*Jean* Although the best conflicts are both.
*Jean* We are dealing with UNITY.
*Jean* How the conflict defines the protagonist, and the beginning of the story.
*JL`* Yes, Unity is what SW:PM lacked
*Jean* All the pieces have to work together.
*JL`* It had THEME running out of every crack, but lacked CHARACTERIZATION and RELATIONSHIP to provide emotional energy.
*Jean* Otherwise the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
*Jean* No one knows who the protag of The Phantom Menace is.
*Jean* It SHOULD be Aniken.
*Jean* But his conflict does not drive the plot.
*Jean* That is why the fans have fallen in love with the princess.
*Jean* SHE has a recognizable conflict, and she deals with it.
*Jean* All HER action throughout the entire film is directed toward saving her planet.
*Jean* IFF these three films are going to center on her as she becomes the mother of Luke and Leia, this trilogy COULD have some unity.
*Jean* But we did not enter the theater expecting her to be the protagonist.
*Jean* All publicity on her was about costuming.
*Jean* The audience is left confused: whose story is this?
*JL* I agree -- Aniken is acted upon (rescued etc) and those who have a purpose, aren't clearly driven TO that purpose. They aren't sympathetic enough -- so we're left hunting for the story while drowning in plot-action.
*Jean* Aniken wants to leave his planet and become a Jedi.
*JL* But Aniken isn't burning UP with that ambition.
*Jean* The race--yeah--I know.
*JL* he just siezes the opportunity
*Jean* Right.
*Jean* He is a Jedi by default.
*Jean* There is some NICE theme stuff.
*Marge* Come to #sgchat Valorie you can talk in there
*JL* He's just looking for an OUT from slavery -- and thinks Jedi are nifty (as any kid would).
*Jean* He corrupts Obi Wan.
*JL* Yes, in a very clear way he does corrupt Obi Wan
*Jean* But he doesn't earn Jediship.
*Jean* Jedihood.
*Jean* Whatever.
*Jean* He's born with it.
*Jean* Microorganisms??? Give me a BREAK!!!!
*Jean* Talk about destroying a great concept with one foolish line!
*Jean* Anyway, Luke had to study and work to become a Jedi.
*JL* I agree about how they GUTTED the biggest concept they had -- the Jedi -- with that silly idea.
*Jean* Aniken just IS one.
*JL* And suddenly they're doing DARKOVER -- where the untrained Jedi is a danger to himself and all those around him, rather than someone who has to earn the position.
*Jean* Yes--one shot of serum: instant Jedi!
*Jean* Anybody can temporarily be One with the Force until his immune system kills the organisms!
*JL* That's a PLOT HOLE big enough to drive a truck through -- and it twists the theme-line out of all recognition.
*Jean* Now we know why Darth Vader fell apart, though.
*JL* so where's the "kryptonite?"
*Jean* Weak immune system.
*Jean* Okay--this is what is WRONG--
*JL* So the reason this movie is remembered as image-image-image rather than FEELING-FEELING-FEELING -- the reason you don't walk out of the theater on cloud nine and go home and make a costume -- is?
*Jean* We are discussing the WRONG THINGS about the film.
*JL* yes, getting twisted up in the surface details.
*JL* The flesh on the skeleton.
*Jean* We are NOT caught up in the lives of the characters.
*JL* Because there's no CONFLICT to latch onto.
*Jean* It is the mirror image of what many students did in Assignment 4.
*JL* No urgent and necessary MUST countered by a nearly equal CAN NOT.
*Jean* All detail, no structure.
*JL* Yes, Mirror image.
*Jean* Refusing to dissect down to the skeleton, too many students did detailed plot summaries.
*JL* and all image-detail, action-detail --
*Jean* That takes time. It's hard work.
*Jean* And it doesn't answer the question.
*JL* And it gives you nothing to work with -- you can't steal someone else's details.
*JL* Who is the protagonist?
*JL* What is the protagonist's conflict?
*Jean* No--it is the SKELETON you must discover.
*Jean* Once you have it, you can flesh it out with a thousand different stories.
*Jean* The story begins when the protagonist's conflict begins.
*JL* usually it's the skeleton that SELLS a work -- because it's recognizable and familiar to the SALESMEN who have to peddle it to the distributors.
*JL* Ah, look what Sandra wrote in the other window.
*Jean* In a well-constructed story, every major plot event is caused by the protagonist's reaction to his/her conflict.
*JL* *Sandra* We were asked to cite the specific ways the conflict drove the plot. How can you do that without explaining in detail?
*Jean* See my analysis of Gone With the Wind.
*JL* Jean - this is the question we must address here and now.
*Jean* Did I go on for fifteen screens?
*JL* How -- not what to do but how to do it?
*JL* How do you identify the protagonist in a marvelously detailed landscape?
*Jean* No--I simply gave several examples of KEY SCENES in which Scarlett's desire for Ashley drove her actions.
*JL* How do you find a starfish against a cliff full of abalone?
*Jean* Look at the opening scene.
*JL* What does your eye do to FIND THE PATTERN?
*Jean* Look at the closing scene.
*JL* Well, it's like reading a clock -- you have to know something to learn something.
*Jean* In a modern work that doesn't meander along for a while before it starts,
*JL* You have to know the PLOT PATTERN in order to discern it UNDERNEATH all the wondrous detail that's designed to HIDE THAT PATTERN FROM READERS AT ALL COSTS.
*Jean* the person at the beginning who seeks to do something is the protagonist.
*Jean* Then look at the end. Are we still with that person?
*Jean* Is the last thing his achievement of his goal?
*Jean* Or his tragic failure to achieve it?
*Jean* Someone chose King Lear.
*Jean* WONDERFUL choice!
*JL* I thought you'd think so -- but I was lost!
*Jean* Lear's goal is to protect his kingdom and his family when he is gone.
*JL* *Valorie* Generally I've only completely understood the assignments after I receive the critiques and read the other submissions/critiques. But I do get the points then and they are very valid.
*Jean* He is 80 years old and knows he is going senile--"Oh, gods, let me not go mad!"
*JL* Jean - are we doing something wrong in the way we explain what we're driving at?
*Jean* He has the right idea, but goes about it all wrong.
*Jean* Obviously.
*JL* Shall we throw it open to let Marge post questions in here for us to discuss?
*Jean* But what do you do other than explain in plain English and give examples?
*JL* We need to EXPLAIN the next assignment (5) CORRECTLY here.
*Jean* Yes--we want a BRIEF plot summary.
*Jean* A protag with a conflict that drives the plot.
*Jean* The key scenes that show how that conflict does so.
*Jean* That's all.
*Jean* Disney animated features always do it so clearly.
*Jean* Pick something that simple.
*JL* I agree -- Disney is a brilliant example and one I learned a lot from.
*Jean* You can think of it as a children's story if you like.
*JL* OK, ready for qued questions on Assn 5?
*Jean* OK
*JL* Marge is collecting them.
*JL* OK Marge -- Q#1
*Marge* Can a protag start out with a simple goal and have it expand as his conflict drives him?
*Jean* Yes.
*Jean* That often happens.
*JL* But the question is are you WRITER ENOUGH to HANDLE THAT MUCH POWER*?
*JL* yet?
*Jean* Risa just wants to save her brother in Ambrov Keon.
*Jean* She ends up saving Keon.
*JL* Ambrov Keon was NOT your first novel or story, Jean. Not by a long shot.
*Jean* She has to save the Householding to provide a safe haven for her brother.
*Jean* But it really is that simple!
*JL* Our assignments here are aimed at getting you to do the SIMPLE form, the first building block, before trying to build the whole castle.
*Jean* Hugh just wants to find Aisha.
*Marge* ready for #2
*Jean* OK
*JL* #2 yes
*Marge* have you got an example of an "outline" we can look
*Marge* at -- I read the posts about outline, but they
*Marge* are not really examples
*JL* I think they are examples.
*JL* In what way are they not examples?
*Jean* There is an example of an "outline" that sold a novel in the lessons.
*JL* Yes, Jean's selling outline has JUST THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF DETAIL to show-don't-tell an editor that she can create the detail, but also show that the skeleton is solid enough to support the detail.
*JL* The selling outline shows that the book is commercial.
*Jean* What we want is first a simple statement of the protagonist's goal.
*Jean* Ercy wants to breed a mahogany trinrose to disjunct her father.
*Jean* Risa wants a safe haven for her brother if he turns Gen.
*Jean* Laneff wants to escape the Last Year House.
*JL* Lear wants to save the Kingdom.
*Jean* Heh heh heh--and you thought Laneff was so noble, didn't you?
*JL* The CONFLICT is inherent in a well-chosen GOAL.
*Jean* She is _really_ junct.
*Jean* Yes, Lear wants to save the Kingdom and his family.
*JL* Laneff is way out of her TIME. The world isn't ready for her.
*Jean* Romeo wants Juliet.
*Jean* Brutus wants to save Rome.
*Jean* Macbeth wants to be king.
*JL* The next thing that comes up in the analysis is what is PREVENTING them from attaining the goal.
*JL* And that's the conflict.
*JL* Why can't Brutus save Rome?
*JL* Why can't Macbeth just BE King?
*Jean* Then how do the events of the plot come from the protagonist TRYING TO REACH THAT GOAL?
*JL* Why can't Laneff just grow a Mahogany Trinrose?
*JL* First the Protag makes a stab at it -- a TRY.
*JL* The antag moves to thwart his/her purpose.
*Jean* External events conflict.
*JL* The protag overcomes the antag's thwarting move.
*JL* The antag gets really mad and takes it personal.
*Jean* Internal conflict opposes external goal (Hamlet).
*JL* As a result of all their fighting, something ELSE happens. (they fought in the house and a lamp fell over and the house caught on fire)
*JL* CAUSE-EFFECT-CAUSE-EFFECT -- trace that unbroken because line.
*Jean* Only a fool fights in a burning house. Klingon proverb
*JL* Precisely - so now the protag and antag have become allies.
*JL* Are we ready for the next question?
*Jean* Because Romeo loves Juliet, he won't fight with her cousin and his friend Mercutio is killed instead.
*Marge* The only two in que are about conflict do you want them now?
*Jean* Because his friend is killed, he takes revenge and kills Tybalt.
*JL* OK, give us CONFLICT
*Marge* HOW do you get the internal and external conflict
*Marge* both in opening scene
*Jean* Because Romeo kills Tybalt, he is exiled.
*Jean* Shakespeare knows how to build a because-line.
*JL* Yes, you have to give him that - he was a technician of the stage-form. An inventor of a lot of it, too.
*Jean* Simba loves his father--yet he just wants to be king.
*JL* He knew how to make POPULAR.
*JL* HOW do you get the internal and exsternal conflict.
*Jean* His external desire opposes his internal love for his father.
*JL* Clarify 'GET' please?
*Jean* Risa is a consummate businesswoman.
*Marge* I think she means how do you show both in the opening scene
*JL* How to SHOW a conflict.
*Jean* She wants to run a business and save her brother at the same time.
*Marge* Internal and external
*Jean* She resolves the conflict by turning Keon into a successful business.
*JL* The BEGINNING of a story is DEFINED AS the point in time when the protag (with goal in mind) FIRST runs up against (meets; encounters) the ANTAG.
*JL* So you SHOW the conflict by showing the protag (a likeable character with a likeable goal) first attempting to start to achieve that goal, and being THWARTED by something tangible.
*Jean* The Little Mermaid wants the prince.
*Jean* He is literally out of her element.
*Jean* Internal conflict is love.
*Jean* External is quest to go to him on land.
*JL* You IMPLY the background, the context of the whole novel, in the opening in visuals, in imagery, in set decoration, in choice of LANGUAGE, in style, in point of view, in the kind of grammar chosen, in how you use dialogue -- in how you blend and combine all the skills and techniques we can't discuss until you've firmly grasped CONFLICT.
*Jean* Mulan's external conflict is saving her father.
*Marge* Ready for the next oe?
*Jean* Internal is discovering where she can fit in her restrictive society.
*Jean* She has toCREATE a place for herself, and saves her father and her country by doing so.
*Jean* Next question.
*JL* yes next question Marge?
*Marge* Question: How can we get out English to the point where we can effectively display the conflict we see without the practice of a lot of writing?
*Jean* You can't.
*Marge* sorry wrong one but go ahead and answer it
*JL* Practice does not consist of "a lot" -- practice consists of doing very small things repeatedly.
*Jean* We are NOT dealing with grammar here.
*Jean* The problem is NOT English.
*JL* As Patric pointed out in the other window -- or someone discussing Anita Blake Vampire Hunter novels -- GRAMMAR DOESN'T COUNT much in commerciality.
*Jean* It is perceiving patterns, and would be exactly the same if we were trying to teach you how to see the patterns in a painting.
*JL* Yes, JEAN -- patterns, as I said above about starfish.
*Jean* You have to SEE the patterns to DUPLICATE the patterns.
*Jean* The first step is becoming aware that there ARE patterns.
*JL* And I've written out the KEY PATTERNS over and over in the commentaries on Assignments and elsewhere.
*JL* *Ann* But if we can -see- the starfish ... but can't explain to someone else the starfish, I at least am stuck!
*JL* Ann said that well.
*JL* Ann - what you're struggling with is the transition from reading as a reader and reading as a writer.
*JL* I did, in several workshop posts, assign repeated homeworks to watch TV or read books with a pad of paper and OUTLINE as you go.
*Jean* One of these days each and every one of you is going to go "click!" and start seeing patterns everywhere!
*JL* OK, once you've perfected the ability to see and record the pattern in a perfect work you read - then TAKE THE PATTERN YOU HAVE EXCERPTED and MAKE A STORY OF YOUR OWN OUT OF IT.
*Jean* And suddenly it becomes so OBVIOUS.
*JL* You don't have to write a LOT to become proficient at writing - your practice must be POINTED and disciplined.
*Jean* Try the "Why did that happen?" approach.
*Jean* Work backwards.
*Jean* But don't work backwards from the end of Romeo and Juliet!!!
*Jean* Even Shakespeare fell off the because-line and flat on his face with that one!
*Marge* REady for the next question?
*Jean* Let me finish with working backwards.
*Marge* ok
*Jean* Why did Lear die? Because Cordelia was murdered before his eyes.
*Jean* And he could not save her because he was too old and feeble.
*Jean* Cordelia was murdered because she came back to England because her sisters had driven their father out.
*Jean* Goneril and Regan had driven Lear out because they wanted England to themselves.
*JL* The best way to learn to USE PATTERNS is to lift one out of a known work and use it as your own. That was Assignment 4 -- identify and LIFT a pattern. Assignment 5 is to USE THAT PATTERN in an original work of your own. That combined exercise that Jean calls "finding the beginning" is the KEY EXERCISE that turns you from a reader into a writer. I did that myself, as part of the FAMOUS WRITER'S COURSE (that I graduated from -- one of the few people to live up to
*Jean* And Lear had set them up for it by letting an emotional fit of senility cause him to remove the Cordelia buffer zone from between them in the first scene.
*JL* And I did it again with SPOCK MUST DIE! -- I lifted Blish's pattern, and wrote FEDERATION CENTENNIAL a ST novel that's part of my Kraith Series, and ON THAT SAME PATTERN wrote and sold my first novel HOUSE OF ZEOR which is posted for you to read free online.
*Jean* I have just HORRENDOUSLY oversimplified Lear--but oversimplification is the point right now.
*JL* Yes, Jean and I think you did a great job peeling away all the layers.
*JL* Anyone could take your analysis here and write an original story that nobody would ever know came from Lear.
*Jean* I think it's called Dune.
*JL* Actually, Jean - you've got a point. Herbert did go to the same writing school.
*Marge* Ready for the next one Jean
*Jean* OK
*JL* OK
*Marge* How much of a beginning can there be, then.
*Marge* If the beginning is the point where they meet,
*Marge* is there no "background" to get them together?
*Jean* Not in the outline.
*JL* I think I dealt with that one.
*Marge* She's talking about protag and antag
*Jean* Only the barest bones of background so anyone will know the bare necessities.
*JL* Aha -- what she means is the POINT IN TIME WHEN THE STORY STARTS -- not what's happening at the beginning.
*JL* This is the error most beginners make -- starting TOO SOON or TOO LATE.
*JL* Jean -- this is what you were talking about.
*Jean* I almost always start at the wrong point.
*JL* Where you said you still find ideas starting off at the wrong point in time.
*Jean* Then what was the first scene either gets cut or moved elsewhere.
*JL* Finding the right point in time when the story starts is HARD.
*Jean* I would love to know where GWTW started in first draft.
*JL* Most beginners will decide that the reader has to know this, that and the other thing BEFORE they can understand what's REALLY HAPPENING at the point where the conflict starts.
*JL* This is why beginners stuff bounces out of slush piles.
*Jean* You have to get the conflict moving before the reader is INTERESTED in the background.
*Jean* We only care about the characters if we care about their goals.
*JL* There are two things to learn here. #1 - you can't get away with this advanced technique unless your name is known to sell product. #2 you can't DO THIS advanced technique until you've completely mastered the straightforward start-where-the-conflict-starts opening.
*Jean* Back to Phantom Menace--the princess was the only person with a goal we cared about.
*Jean* What advanced technique?
*Jean* NO ONE gets away with heaps of background before the story starts.
*Jean* That's not an advanced technique--it's suicide.
*Jean* Look at the teaser of ANY tv show.
*Jean* Ack.
*Jean* I was not going to watch it.
*JL* Ann* Where a story begins is why I steal so heavily ... if a master does it that way, then I just copy --- Yes, Ann, but the PROBLEM most of the beginners in this class are running into is that they are copying the MASTERS who are using or demonstrating a complex of 6 advanced techniques juggled in the first 5 pages of a novel. You must copy the MASTER who is demonstrating something SIMPLE. To that end, check out the work of BIG NAME WRITERS when they are doing T
*Jean* A new soap opera starts tomorrow on NBC.
*Jean* By the end of the first episode, we will know the current conflicts of at least three characters.
*Jean* It will open in medias res.
*Jean* People we don't know will be in bed together, literally or figuratively.
*Jean* Somebody will have a career problem and attempt to deal with it in a dishonest way.
*Jean* There will be lovers who are being kept apart for some reason.
*Jean* And by the end of the episode, you WILL know who is the villain!
*JL* Jean - I have an idea -- can we create an Assignment 5 right here by example, using Marge to brainstorm an original story with?
*Jean* OK
*Jean* But the point about the soap is that there will NOT be big bunches of background before action begins.
*Jean* Go, Marge.
*Marge* uestion: Excepting the idea of mass market,
*Marge* WHY does the character have to be "likeable in
*Marge* the begining"?
*Marge* I recognize it reduces the audience, but can the
*Marge* Protag not BECOME likeable as he resolves his
*Marge* conflict?
*JL* good - let's do 2 more questions and grill Marge over an open word.
*JL* I think we dealt with that -- yes, it can happen, but it's advanced technique.
*Jean* Han Solo is usually a secondary character.
*JL* *JL* After 30 years of writing and selling novels, MZB wrote and sold a book like you describe, Patric -- 30 BLESSED YEARS!!! And I watched her write that book, chapter by chapter, and she SUFFERED HELFIRE AND DAMNATION to write it. It is DOABLE but it is HARD!!! We're trying to teach you simple.
*Jean* Abel Veritt, too.
*JL* The REASON for the protag to be "likeable" is that "likeable" is the core definition of "protag".
*JL* The protag is the person the reader is rooting FOR. The person the reader identifies with.
*Jean* The reader has to identify with the protag to CARE enough to read on.
*JL* Thus who or what is "likeable" depends entirely on the intended readership/audience.
*Jean* Did you watch "From Dusk to Dawn" on Fox last night?
*Jean* The protag was a murderer.
*Jean* George Clooney made it work.
*Jean* But ghod....
*JL* For example, most people who are professionals in the wrestling profession today are not the sort of people I personally would consider LIKEABLE or want to read a story about. But wrestling fans and people in the wrestling world would like what I consider unlikeable in such a hero.
*Jean* NOT for kiddies!!!
*JL* Right -- these days they are using the scuz of the world as "likeable" on TV.
*JL* But "likeable" is entirely a matter of taste.
*Jean* We are not trying to teach you to write for the truly jaded.
*JL* And for a professional WRITER -- it only means -- the only defn that counts -- is the EDITOR'S. Or the person who signs the checks.
*Jean* But note that we write about killers.
*Jean* Not murderers, but people who kill casually.
*Jean* And they change in the course of our books.
*Jean* Come to think of it..._I_ usually write those, don't I?
*Jean* Hmmmmm
*Marge* Back to SW/PM: somebody asked, what would have
*Marge* been the right beginning (Aniken=protag)?
*JL* Yes, Jean, I have always said you're a better writer than I am, and you still are.
*Jean* More jaded.
*JL* OK, what WOULD WE HAVE DONE with SW/PM
*Jean* If Aniken were the protag, he would have gotten his mother out.
*Jean* He would have been bound and determined to end slavery.
*Jean* And he would have been sixteen, not ten.
*Jean* Making him ten vitiated his potential to be protag.
*JL* Well, usually I wouldn't have chosen Aniken as protag. But if I had been handed the job of writing this movie, I'd have MADE him the protag at that point in his life. I'd have made that kid the sweetest, most loyal, most sincere and lovable kid ever.
*JL* I'd have given no hint of the dark side within him that would come out later.
*Jean* Even physically, at ten a kid just doesn't have the capability.
*JL* It would have been his purity that would have been his GREATEST WEAKNESS. The weakness from within that destroys the hero ultimately.
*JL* He wouldn't have been an abused slave.
*Jean* Not for THAT story.
*Jean* That's Assignment 6, Jacqueline.
*JL* No, you see it wouldn't have been THAT story -- in my hands, it would have become something totally different.
*JL* Well, there are plenty of kids books with 10 year old protags.
*JL* I was a hero at 10.
*JL* I remember 10 years old very well.
*JL* It was hard and I conquered it.
*Jean* Assignment 6 is the story where someone's greatest strength proves his weakness in a new situation.
*JL* 10 isn't the problem.
*JL* It's that the kid was a total loss already.
*JL* And he was only an OBJECT in this movie.
*Jean* 10 year olds can be heroes in kid's conflicts.
*JL* Yes, and this is "save the galaxy" conflict time.
*JL* So the only kid who can be the hero of this story is the Royal one.
*JL* But even so, he will be ACTED UPON more than ACTING.
*JL* Another bit of the CORE DEFINITION of Protag is that the Protag is the one who does the ACTING, not the one who is ACTED UPON.
*JL* If you define your protag as the one who is acted upon, you end up with a HUNG HERO.
*Jean* Well, being acted upon often spurs a protag into acting.
*JL* And yes, very proficient advance writers can MAKE THAT WORK -- but don't try it until you've mastered the active-protag.
*Jean* From that point ON he adts.
*Jean* acts
*JL* Jean, don't entice them with advanced forms when they can't even find a basic one.
*JL* nevermind use a basic one.
*Jean* That one IS a basic.
*JL* OK are we ready to do a demo -- we're really spinning out of time here and everyone's tired and has other things to do.
*Jean* Marge?
*Marge* yes Maam
*JL* Alright -- give us a Protag -- any genre.
*Marge* A protag ok Hard boiled Gen Chief of Policy out-t circa 10 years or so after Unity
*Jean* Good. What is his/her conflict?
*Jean* Policy for what?
*JL* OK, we'll do this in Sime~Gen -- and try to keep it in English.
*Marge* There is a Sime Center in town has been there for a year or so.. He wants to trust the channels but is having a hard time considering them anything but killers
*JL* Policy means Police in typo-ese.
*Marge* sorry yes he's a cop
*Jean* Oh, VERY good!
*JL* Sime Center = Embassy --
*Jean* Now, SPECIFIC conflict.
*JL* Give us a Name
*Jean* What is the case he requires to trust a channel about?
*Jean* Why can't he solve it with Gen police procedures?
*Marge* A sime is murdered
*Jean* And no one cares?
*Marge* the only evidence is the channel's testimony
*JL* Out-Territory -- in Gen Territory a Sime (alien) is murdered.
*Jean* Is this a police procedural or a courtroom drama?
*Marge* an investigate the ending is when the channel and the cop trap the killer
*JL* OK, this is like an international thriller with an Israeli murdered in NYC near the Israeli embassy, and the local chief of police seriously distrusts Israelis.
*Jean* Is the question whether there is actually a murder?
*Jean* I'm trying to pinpoint the conflict.
*Jean* In terms where the background doesn't matter.
*Jean* What is the actual question?
*Marge* No there isn't in the Cops mind and in the channel's mind
*Jean* Murder or natural causes?
*Jean* Or whodunit from p.1?
*Marge* It was murder but looks like natural causes
*Marge* whodunit and how do we prove it
*Jean* The cop is certain it was murder?
*Jean* OK
*Marge* It looks like a simple changevoer death but too many things don't add up for the cop
*Jean* There is a clear external conflict.
*Marge* So he is suspicious the only person who can help him is the channel
*Jean* The coroner says natural causes, right?
*Marge* If they had a coroner he would say that yes
*Jean* There has to be some sort of ME if there is a police force.
*JL* The barber used to be the coroner in the Wild West.
*Jean* The Gen doctor says natural causes.
*Marge* ok the barber says its natural causes
*Marge* this is a frontier culture
*Jean* Now the because-line.
*Jean* And internal conflict.
*Jean* Why does the police officer care?
*Jean* Mere justice?
*Marge* internal conflict cop needs channels help but doesn't quite trust sime
*JL* We need to find the INTIAL EVENT - the action the protag takes that STARTS the because chain.
*Marge* yes justice
*Jean* Or personal?
*Jean* OK--just the principle of the thing.
*Jean* Fine--see how this characterizes the police officer?
*Jean* He CARES about abstract justice.
*Marge* He is a firm believe in justice devoted his life to it
*Jean* Good.
*Jean* Now--what does he DO when he gets the "natural causes" report?
*JL* OK and there's the CONFLICT -- as someone asked, how to SHOW a CONFLICT -- and there it is. If the character CARES about something in the beginning -- on page one -- then that is the one thing that will be CHALLENGED in the conflict. It will be HARD to attain JUSTICE.
*Jean* Where are we going here?
*Marge* realizes that he is going to have to ask the Channel for help. He has some ida of what simes can do
*Marge* He will go to the center and ask for help from the channel
*Jean* OK, but before we go there, we have to know whodunit.
*JL* OK, then the story opens at the MOMENT the Cop realizes he's way out of his depth.
*Marge* yes
*JL* That moment of FEAR -- of "oh, no I'm going to have to ask for help" is the opening moment of this story.
*Jean* If the AUTHOR doesn't know, then she can't build the plot.
*Jean* Not if it's about justice.
*Jean* Only if it's about "manhood."
*Jean* If it's about justice, then the murderer is someone who usually gets away with things.
*Jean* A symbol of injustice.
*Marge* Its about justice and about trust
*JL* Yes, Jean if it's about Justice -- that moment of fear is "it's not JUST to require THIS of ME -- I'm only a cop!"
*Jean* Someone powerful.
*Jean* While Simes are the scum of the earth in this community.
*JL* OK, students -- you see two stories unfolding here from Marge's Protag and SITUATION. One is a Jean Lorrah story. One a JL story. Similar but DIFFERENT.
*JL* this is a genuine skeleton - a genuine PLOT OUTLINE -- it can be either story easily.
*Marge* murder is a corrupt government official
*Marge* murder=murderer
*Jean* O-KAY!
*Marge* rich powerful but....shall I go on
*Jean* No need to go on--we know this guy.
*Jean* Now, what is his motive?
*Jean* The murderer's motive.
*Jean* Again, the AUTHOR has to know to construct the plot.
*Marge* he is a banker who is also the trustee of the victims parents' estate
*Marge* he's been embezzzling not sure why yet
*Marge* the kid is due to inherit on his 17th bd but goes into co first
*Jean* But if the victim changes over and is sent in-T, he loses all rights anyway.
*Jean* Why murder him?
*Marge* part of the estate is in-t
*JL* If the theme is JUSTICE -- then the embezzler is embezling because he feels what he's stealing really belongs to him. THEME IS THE GLUE.
*JL* We're getting LOST IN DETAIL.
*Jean* That part of the motive comes later.
*JL* Go back to Protag - conflict - antag.
*Jean* We have to know what the antag does not want uncovered.
*Jean* Then the because-line uncovers it.
*Marge* the embezzlement.
*JL* He murdered to keep the embezzlment secret?
*Jean* OK--how did he expect to get away with it?
*JL* Because nobody would take exception to a Sime being murdered out-t?
*Marge* he expected that the death would be put down to natural causes
*JL* Didn't know who that Sime was?
*Jean* How could he embezzle the in-T property?
*Marge* I don't know...
*JL* He had to feel JUSTIFIED in killing that Sime -- had to rationalize that if the theme is JUSTICE.
*Jean* Does he want to kill all Simes?
*Marge* oh he feels for some reason he should have inherited the estate
*Jean* In-T?
*JL* We don't really CARE how he embezzled the in-t property.
*JL* That's a detail - we work that out later.
*JL* Stick to the CONFLICT and BECAUSE-LINE
*JL* The theme will reveal how he did the deed.
*Jean* The because-line to me says that if the kid had to die because he turned Sime, then it was only as a Sime that he would discover the embezzlement.
*Jean* If he had established the antagonist thought he would get away with it.
*JL* Ah, I thought the Sime who was murdered was an in-T citizen of some STANDING. If not a channel, then a gov't official.
*Jean* A kid in changeover.
*JL* If this is about JUSTICE -- then the murdered person should be someone involved in Justice who got AXed because of his pursuit of JUSTICE.
*Marge* right
*Jean* Under 17
*JL* Under 16 you mean.
*Jean* Marge said he was to inherit at 17.
*Jean* He could be twelve.
*Jean* The point is, he's no politician or official.
*Marge* no he's not.
*JL* OK, I missed that.
*JL* Fine -- the victim is dead.
*Marge* He just has the misfortune to have a corrupt powerful banker for a trustee or whatever you call it
*Jean* There has to be more to this.
*JL* The Chief of Police is in two minds about that. The kid was SIME, and thus not necessarily worthy of Justice; and the Kid got MURDERED and is thus entitled to JUSTICE not matter what -- and besides that means there's a murderer loose in his town and by-gum that's not tolerable.
*Marge* victim is dead Cop realizes he needs help on this one.
*JL* Marge, you're LOST IN THE DETAIL.
*Jean* The cop has to have run up against the murderer before.
*JL* Get back to the skeleton and work it up systematically from the core of the bones.
*Marge* I'm sure he has. He's been a cop a long time
*Jean* Has the murderer escaped justice before?
*Marge* He abhors murder
*Jean* Murder or injustice?
*JL* In the perp's eyes, what he did isn't murder so he zlins innocent.
*Marge* yes
*Jean* Where are we going?
*Marge* after all he just killed a Sime a non-entity
*JL* the POINT of this story is the building of a RELATIONSHIP between the out-T Cop and the in-T Channel.
*Jean* Work backwards.
*Jean* The murderer is caught BECAUSE...?
*JL* The Sime who was killed and why he was killed is irrelevant.
*Jean* And don't say because the cop and the channel work together!
*JL* You build the CRIME from the DYNAMIC CONFLICT between the two people who matter, who CONFLICT to generate the because-line.
*Marge* The channel figured out a way to trap him using psychology
*Jean* The EVENT that makes it impossible for him to escape.
*Jean* Specific trap?
*Marge* sorry my mind went blank
*JL* The trap has to be concocted from the THEME -- Justice.
*JL* the pursuit of Justice.
*Jean* Ideally, he is trapped by the same feelings about Simes that the protag had at the beginning but got over.
*JL* How do you trap a person who thinks he is innocent of the CRIME because what he did is no crime?
*JL* You convince him that it is a CRIME!
*Jean* He knows embezzlement is a crime.
*Marge* By showing him that Simes are people too?
*Jean* Nah.
*Jean* We're not going to change the villain.
*JL* You SHOW DON'T TELL just what it means to be a helpless changeover victim, paralyzed in a life-or-death battle with your own body, what it means to be bewildered, sick and depenendent.
*Jean* This is a whodunit.
*Jean* The cop is the protag, not the murderer.
*JL* The crime isn't embezzlment -- the crime is murder.
*Marge* yes he is
*Marge* covering up the embezzlment is at best just the motive
*Jean* But how is he caught?
*JL* This wasn't a premeditated murder -- it was spur of the moment -- because he didn't know the kid would change over.
*Jean* Catching the murderer FIRMLY so he's not going to get out of it is the necessary ending.
*JL* Jean - how he's caught is really irrelevant.
*JL* the point of this story is the building of a relationship between the Cop and the channel.
*Jean* Then this is not a whodunit.
*Jean* Then it is not a whodunit.
*Marge* Then what is it?
*JL* He has to confess publically -- after they do a job on him psychologically.
*JL* It's FIRST CONTACT.
*Marge* That's a theme?
*JL* Any CRIME will suffice to support the FIRST CONTACT dynamic.
*JL* No, JUSTICE is the theme.
*Jean* Oh, fiddle--you just want Marge to write HoZ all over again.
*Jean* SHE wants to write a whodunit.
*Marge* No way Jose
*Jean* SHE has a MYSTERY to solve.
*JL* No, it was Marge's idea to throw this Cop into the arms of this Channel.
*JL* I think she's miscued Jean.
*Marge* I want to do both actually
*Jean* Yes--it's the black/white cop story of the 60's.
*JL* the whodunit is UNDERNEATH the FIRST CONTACT story -- which makes it complicated.
*JL* The CRIME may be completely changed.
*Jean* The whodunit has to go on top.
*Marge* BINGO Jl has it
*JL* The CRIME has to be generated from the conflict between the Cop and the Channel.
*JL* It has to be a crime they each see as too heinous for words, but for different reasons.
*Jean* Then there is no murder.
*JL* And I think she's got the wrong crime.
*JL* It can be a murder, surely.
*Marge* What? The crime occurrs because there is a conflict between a cop and a channel?
*JL* But it has to be a kind of murder, by a method and of a particular person that makes it PERSONAL to each of these unique individuals.
*Jean* That's what Jacqueline just said.
*Jean* We have now lost justice.
*Marge* But how can that happen?
*JL* No, the conflict between the Cop and the Channel has to take shape FIRST in your mind -- then you use the theme to create a crime that WOULD BE PERSONAL to those two people, and impossible to solve UNLESS THEY COOPERATE in a way they simply CAN NOT COOPERATE in.
*Marge* oh...
*Jean* That is all very abstract, and we are not going to get anywhere with it.
*JL* Since the Cop-Channel was the core of your STORY IDEA -- you BUILD everything else in the story around that core.
*Jean* A straight whodunit we could plot today.
*JL* And I think the reason you can't write this so far is that the TWO PIECES do not go together properly.
*JL* the way to solve that kind of a problem is to throw out one of the piece.
*JL* Yes, you can write a whodunit.
*JL* but you have to design the whodunit out of the raw material of the conflict between these two people, the Cop and the Channel.
*JL* All we need to do here is define that conflict and you'll be off and running.
*JL* Instead we got sidetracked into a lot of detail about designing a crime that you've already designed in your head.
*Jean* So why does the cop distrust channels?
*JL* We want to get you to FORGET that particular murder, scrap it -- and go from scratch, starting with the two protags.
*JL* then you design the antag from the two protags.
*Jean* But a whodunit starts from the crime and the criminal.
*Marge* He's not 100% convinced he's not going to end up killed. Remember this is not too long after unity.
*JL* That murderer MUST be the mirror image -- the true nemesis of EACH of the two protags.
*JL* But for different reasons.
*JL* Marge, FORGET everything you already know about this story.
*Marge* He wants to trust them but has that gut fear all Gens do of Simes at this point in time
*Jean* But Marge, he would not have to work with the channel if the murder had not happened first.
*Marge* ok
*JL* Maybe he is 100% whatever.
*JL* You don't know.
*Jean* Therefore there is no conflict before the murder.
*JL* That's why I wanted to do a story you have never thought of before.
*JL* We wouldn't have gotten lost like this.
*Marge* Sorry
*JL* When you know too much -- too much is set in stone in your head -- you get tangled up like this.
*Jean* Not Marge's fault.
*JL* Remember last class Jean did the same thing.
*Marge* You asked for a protag I gave you one
*JL* Only she knows that sometimes the BEST material is the stuff you have to cut.
*Jean* She has a perfectly viable story that you won't let her plot, Jacqueline.
*JL* so she scrapped some of her pet ideas -- like the exact shape of the jail -- and THEN we got the story to come together.
*Jean* Let me plot the whodunit with her.
*JL* Yes, the whodunnit she's got is viable -- but not with her Farris Channel.
*Jean* Later you plot this other thing with her.
*Jean* WHAT Farris channel??????
*Marge* Jean are you saying I have two stories here?
*Jean* There is no Farris channel in this story.
*JL* If you want to see them as two separate stories (which they might be) you can do it that way.
*JL* Aha, that's where you're wrong, Jean.
*JL* The Channel she's talking about is a quinetesstial Farris.
*Jean* Well just make it an ordinary channel and let's go.
*Marge* ok Jean where are we going?
*JL* There, you see -- you have to throw away something to get anywhere because these two things don't GO TOGETHER.
*JL* OK, do a whodunnit.
*Jean* We have a murderer covering an embezzlement with a murder.
*Marge* ok
*JL* Assume the Cop and the Channel have worked together smoothly for years, and this is just another case.
*Jean* He thinks he can get away with it because the kid was in changeover.
*Marge* yes
*Jean* He knows enough about changeover to murder the kid without strangling or knifing him.
*Marge* right
*Jean* Knows to put pressure on his laterals.
*Jean* Hideous death.
*Marge* yes it would be. Good idea
*Jean* OK--the cop is capable of figuring that out, because of his police training.
*Marge* yes
*Jean* He knows where Simes are vulnerable.
*Jean* Has to deal with changeover victims sometimes.
*Marge* yes he would be if he's worked with the channel for very long
*Jean* So there is an established relationship?
*Jean* Why has it gone sour?
*Jean* Why does he NOT want to work with the channel again?
*Marge* the relationship between the cop and the channel?
*Jean* Yes.
*Jean* You have said the cop is reluctant.
*Marge* Um...Something would have to have happened to make him distrust the channel
*Jean* Right
*Jean* It will come.
*Jean* Let's go to the ending.
*Marge* someone close to the cop dies and he blames the channel
*Marge* ok
*Jean* How is the murderer caught?
*Jean* Let's not have him confess.
*Jean* What is the irrefutable evidence?
*Marge* no that's too Perry Masonish
*Marge* well there is the channel's testimony I'm assuming he can zlin it
*Jean* The courts won't accept the channel's testimony about the cause of death, so they have to find out about the embezzlement.
*Marge* but that only proves there is a murder
*Marge* true
*Jean* In a whodunit you have to know the ending to plot the beginning.
*Marge* ok I'm thinking.
*Jean* That is where you went wrong in the first place.
*Jean* If the embezzler is caught perfectly comfortably in-T, for example, laying his claim to the property.
*Jean* He's supposed to be a Simephobe, but the channel zlins him low-field at some point.
*Marge* and starts asking questions...
*Marge* yes...
*Jean* He actually has in-T connections with the criminal element there, including channels.
*Jean* non-Tecton channels
*Marge* criminal channels??????? Ok I didn't know there were any but ok yes that would work
*Jean* Someday I am going to write about the criminal element.
*Marge* Looks like I may beat you to it. I like this.
*Jean* Sure--the Tecton believes they are not functioning.
*Jean* Actually they are providing extra selyn for illegal augmentation.
*Marge* Ok so they track the killer in-t and discovers his connections with the in-t criminal element
*Marge* ah interesting
*JL* 10 years after Unity there would HAVE to be a lot of illegal stuff going on in-T that out-T never finds out about until 50 years later if then.
*Jean* Suppose the original plan went awry.
*Jean* The kid was supposed to establish.
*Marge* but he didn't and the killer knows he would be exposed if the kid comes in-t and tries to claim his property
*Marge* so he has to die.
*Jean* Exactly!
*Jean* Simple greed.
*Jean* A motive anyone can understand.
*Marge* the oldest and best motive in the world
*Jean* So the cop and the channel engineer a sting.
*Marge* right.. catch the killer red handed
*JL* Go take a break Marge.
*Jean* Make the murderer think he HAS to go in-T or lose the property he murdered to get.
*JL* *MargaretI* just as last time you abandoned Fear of abandonment for junctedness
*Jean* And this time they have watchdogs on him.
*Jean* Now--work backwards.
*Jean* They are able to set up the sting because they have learned to work together.
*Jean* They have learned to work together because...?
*JL* I wanted to point out to Margaret while Marge is away that in the brainstorming - pre-outlining - phase of story-concocting, you must search for the elements that go together.
*Jean* That's the middle of the book.
*JL* You solve it by successive approximations.
*JL* You try this - try that -- discard this -- explore that --
*JL* You do that at THIS stage -- not after it's all written. See I have to learned something over the decades, Jean.
*Jean* You could liven up the ending with another kid in jeopardy, too.
*Jean* This guy has more than one trusteeship.
*Marge* and they catch him just in time to save the second kid's life
*Jean* With the cop and channel after him, he may--YES!
*Jean* What he has to go in-T for is to RESTORE another kid's property, because he can't do it again.
*Jean* He knows he's suspected--has to cover his ass.
*Marge* yes
*Jean* He dare not kill another of his clients.
*Marge* He would know once they start poking around in his business affairs
*Jean* Dare not get caught embezzling or his motive for the other murder will be revealed.
*Jean* And of course he doesn't want to go to jail for embezzlement, either.
*Marge* so he has to restore what he's stolen from the second kid
*Jean* Right--their pressure sets him running, and they trace his steps and catch him.
*Marge* yes.
*Jean* The channel's in-T connections help.
*Jean* Our cop makes his first trip in-T to collect the perp?
*Marge* probably yes.
*Marge* And I'm guessing it's not easy for him
*Jean* Simes are people, too.
*Jean* The murderer agrees.
*Jean* He is of course a junct Gen.
*Marge* Now wait a sec where did you get that?
*Jean* The difference is that he sees ALL people as potential victims.
*Jean* OK--he doesn't have to be a Giant Killer Gen.
*Marge* hum yes that would give him the junct mentality
*Jean* But he is junct--a murderer.
*Marge* by that definately yes
*Marge* But don't give him whergen powers please
*Jean* The junct mentality: me first, above ANYONE else's life.
*Marge* right
*Jean* No--just that total selfishness.
*Jean* He is a USER.
*Marge* yes
*Jean* Now that you have the beginning and the end, you have to draw the because-line through the middle.
*Marge* ok
*Jean* The murderer is a thorougly evil man, but capable of working with Simes (corrupt in-T criminal Simes).
*Marge* the middle would have to be when they make some attempt to trap/capture him that fails
*Jean* To thwart him, the cop learns to work with civilized Simes.
*Jean* They have to fail at least once because the cop cannot trust the channel at a crucial moment.
*Marge* Then they follow him in-t where they succeed in trapping him
*Jean* Right.
*Marge* yes
*Marge* middle here = dark moment ???
*Marge* Their partnerhip is perhaps in jeopardy?
*Jean* What is the worst case scenario?
*Jean* There is no partnership until the final scenes.
*Jean* There is just an armed truce.
*Marge* They can't work together the guy gets away with it and kills again
*Jean* Right.
*Marge* ok yes...
*Marge* so they have to overcome whatever it was that screwed up their first atteempt to trap the killer
*Jean* It is that realization--he is going to murder again AND GET AWAY WITH IT if we can't work together.
*Marge* right
*Jean* Now you have to find the cop's internal conflict.
*Jean* He's a nice guy.
*Marge* yes
*Jean* In theory, he accepts that Simes are people.
*Marge* but deep in his heart he fears them...
*Jean* Why can't he trust the channel?
*Jean* Why more than most?
*Marge* completely?
*Jean* Why doesn't exposure to nonjunct Simes work with him as it does on most people?
*Marge* not sure but I think it might be because he's not 100% sure that channels never kill.
*Jean* He KNOWS they do!
*Marge* in his years as a cop he's seen a lot of victims of beserkers
*Jean* He knows that not all channels are in the Tecton.
*Marge* true
*Jean* Remember--he knows something about this criminal element.
*Marge* This guy is though
*Jean* But the point is that he knows channels CAN kill.
*Marge* yes he does
*Marge* Sooo deep in his heart he fears the channel
*JL* Doesn't know about anti-kill conditioning?
*Jean* Doesn't believe in it.
*Marge* he might not. It wouldn't be something the channel would talk about
*Marge* Ok that works
*Jean* That is an esoteric thing to out-T Gens.
*Jean* If he knows non-Tecton channels can kill, why should he believe that some fancy transfer technique could prevent a channel from ever killing?
*Marge* so he has to overcome this. He's putting his life in the channel's hands by the mere act of going out-t with him
*Marge* out-t = in-t
*Jean* In-T
*Marge* Shen but I'm getting tired
*Jean* And he has to DONATE first.
*Jean* Can't go in-T high field.
*Marge* um but if he's worked with this channel before surely he's donated before
*Jean* Not necessarily.
*Jean* The channel could have failed to persuade him.
*Marge* ok true.
*Marge* but now he has no choice. He can't cross the border high field the channel can't guarantee his safety
*Jean* Right.
*Marge* Ok that works.
*Jean* The channel can guarantee his own behavior, but not that of other Simes in-T.
*Marge* right and cop is not sure he belives he's safe even with the channel
*Jean* Of course.
*Jean* But if the murderer is safe....
*Marge* Jean is this how you and JL come up with the great stuff you come up with?
*Jean* Yep
*Jean* BTW, one more thing.
*Marge* on finish your sentance abou the murderer being safe
*Jean* There is obviously traumatic experience in the cop's past.
*Marge* yes I was thinking that. Hey I know he got burned once
*Jean* But I would not make it his ever having been attacked by a Sime.
*Jean* That is too much.
*Marge* oh why not?
*Marge* Ah....
*Jean* But he has seen the victims of berserkers.
*Marge* his wife maybe?
*Marge* or son or daughter?
*Jean* Too traumatic.
*Jean* Just a cop's experience.
*JL* uncle
*Marge* ok
*Jean* He has seen lots of death--
*Jean* and he has heard LOTS of lies.
*Marge* he's probbly seen quite a few the center hasn't been there all that long
*Marge* yes
*Jean* It's not even just the idea of the Kill.
*Jean* He has seen murder.
*JL* DEATH of uncle is what made him become a cop?
*Jean* He has seen casual neglect, casual abuse.
*Jean* Not just Simes.
*Marge* yes he's been a cop for a long time
*Jean* The theme here seems to be that people are people, good or bad--Sime or Gen is NOT what makes the idfference.
*Jean* But there has to be something about not trusting the claims made about the moral superiority of channels.
*Jean* He KNOWS there are criminal channels.
*Jean* HOW he knows is going to figure into your story somewhere.
*Marge* hum...ok
*Jean* But this time he has to trust in order to catch a KNOWN murderer.
*Jean* The stakes are too high.
*Jean* The low point is where the murderer slips through their fingers because they can't work together.
*Marge* right.
*Marge* Cop's fear/distrust gets the better of him
*Jean* Then your cop has to square his shoulders and decide that the goal is too important not to take the risk of trust.
*Marge* yes This is EXACTLY what I wanted to do with these two in the first place
*Jean* But the next step is a loooooong way down!
*Jean* Yay!
*Jean* Sleep on it, fill in the middle, and let me see it.
*Marge* oh wow Sure Jean thanks
*Jean* OK--anything else now?
*Marge* on the story I don't think so
*Marge* JL???????
*JL* I think we're done.
*JL* I'm at least par-boiled.
*Jean* Good--I'm tired!
*Marge* I feel like a burger that has been on the grill for way too long
*JL* We've been doing CLASS for 3 hours -- and I started this at 8 AM and it's now 6PM
*Jean* Thanks for coming, everyone!
*Jean* I hope it has helped.
*JL* I've been typing for 10 hours straight.
*Marge* I know I've learned a lot
*Jean* That's the idea.
*Jean* Who's logging?
*Marge* Patric mine got screwed by getting kicked off
*Jean* I have to learn how to set MIRC to log--I can't find it under any of the buttons.
*Marge* see the little box in the upper left hand corner of this window
*JL* It's an option setting.
*Marge* right click it.
*Jean* Right click WHAT?
*Jean* There is no choice of logging under Options.
*Marge* left hand corner of the box we're in should have a small box
*Marge* right before it says #classroom on the top bar of the window
*Jean* Nothing happens.
*Marge* hum try left clicking that's where your window options are supposed to be
*Jean* OK--left-click did it.
*Marge* ok sorry I'm left handed so my mouse buttons are reversed
*Jean* Thanks--that is NOT intuitive!
*Marge* no it's not. I had a rough time learning mirc
*Jean* Now I know where it is--thanks.
*Marge* WEG how about some day I teach you how to do the moderator functions?
*Jean* Maybe--but I have enough trouble just keeping up as a participant.
*Marge* That's ok. I figure tech stuff is my job most of the time
*Jean* Anyway, thanks for being victim, Marge.
*Jean* Good luck with the story!
*JL* STANDING OVATION FOR MARGE!!!
*Marge* thank you. It was a learning experience
*Jean* I'm going to close this box and see what was going on in #sgchat all this time.
*Jean* Bye, folks.
*JL* bye Jean
*JL* END LOG
Session Close: Sun Jul 04 15:16:18 1999  

This story when written will be linked into Rimon's Library, but meanwhile you can trace Marge Robbins development as a writer by reading her previously published stories. 

This is being written by JL the morning after the second class for "The Essence of Story"

Yes, I'm cheating here in that I can talk back when others can't -- I can only hope I can be helpful here.

I will paste the comment from sgchat2 that I'm answering here and add a comment. At some time in the future, Jean Lorrah may add another comment.

*JL`* Kate got a pkg from me -- books.

If you're curious see http://www.simegen.com/marketplace/emporium/endorsed.html

*MargaretI* so, when we get to questions my first question is HOW do you get the internal and external conflict both in opening scene?

I hope I answered that at length in #classroom. You use symbolism, imagery, ACTION, foreshadowing, grammar, point of view, choice of verbs, and every trick that's ever been invented all at once, synthesized, and smoothly blended so a mere reader can never see the separate parts.

How do you learn to create that synthesis? By learning each of these techniques ONE AT A TIME and practicing them repeatedly ONE AT A TIME. What you produce in practice won't be saleable prose any more than a piano student's scales are Carnegie Hall material -- but only that one-at-a-time-skill-practice will get you to publishability without writing 3 or 4 million words for the garbage can. With pointed, directed, focused and disciplined PRACTICE a mere half-million may do the trick. In my case, it only took about a hundred thousand words before I sold my first story, Operation High Time ( http://www.simegen.com/sgfandom/rimonslibrary/oht.html ). That story was the homework assignment for The Famous Writers School (a famous correspondence course shut down I think decades ago because of fraud in their selling techniques. We paid thousands for the course. The "Pitch" was that after lesson 4 the student would start selling. ALMOST NOBODY DID -- I was an exception. Why? Because I took some of their advice and ignored the rest. What I "took" is what we're teaching you here. The only part of the secret we haven't taught you yet is to STUDY YOUR MARKET. And we've begun doing that with Assigment 4.

*Patric* But shouldn't we take into account that this is the 'first story' to a longer work? In the Pawn of Prophecy review, someone mentioned that the hero doesnt appear till later, and the first story is about the guardians of the hero..

Yes, Patric, and we HAVE taken that into account. This is the FIRST CHAPTER of a longer work, and therefore SHOULD be tighter. The fact that it is not tighter is the reason why Lucas chose to start in the MIDDLE. I'd guess that at the time, he didn't know how to fix this problem and still start at the beginning. I'm pretty sure this story is very close to what he first invented as the start of the story.

*Patric* So doesnt that make Aniken a passive protagonist, eventually?

Yes -- read #classroom.

Notice that Lucas did NOT start his blockbuster series with a hung hero. Watch the first movie with pad and pen, and outline it. It has a standard juvenile sf adventure opening structure.

*Marge* Light Sabers and fast space ships do not conflict make.

YES!!!

*Robin* No ties, things just happened, Aniken "happens" to punch right button on ship...gimme a break!

Actually, THAT is the one thing I felt they did correctly. He was just flowing with "The Force" -- that was the moment this young kid became corrupted. He discovered that cheating wins.

*Sandra* We were asked to cite the specific ways the conflict drove the plot. How can you do that without explaining in detail?

I have written it out in many places -- in the Workshop and elsewhere. There are only 2 plots. But you can find that out only if you shear away all the details. There are only 3 conflicts, only two plots. All the rest is detail.

*Sandra* We were asked to show how the conflict drove the plot to the end, not to cite a*Sandra* few scenes. *Sandra* At least that's how I interpreted the assignment.

To find out how the conflict drove the plot, you had to shear away all the details. There's no other way to get DOWN to the conflict or the plot to find out which of the few possibilities it is.

NOTE: almost everyone who did include too much detail did the assignment exactly CORRECTLY -- except they stopped one step too soon -- so I took that last step based ONLY on what they had written, demonstrating HOW to do it right, not just what was WRONG with what they did. In fact, nobody did it WRONG -- they only stopped too soon. You're all SO CLOSE to getting this down pat.

Remember, the objective here is not to get the "correct" answer -- it's to get an answer YOU can use.

* Ann figures it is all part of the structure of the class * Robin Nods...we're learning.

Ann and Robin are correct here -- relax and go with it. You are all making great progress. You may not see it from where you're standing, but I see it clearly.

*KateKirk* Q for JL and Jean -- I realize we are talking about the messed-up conflict in Star Wars I here. But I think that one of the problems is that the story starts in the wrong place. All the fighting etc. that took place on the space station was unneccesary. It should have started much earlier, or else somewhat later. Where should it have started? Or is the beginning indeterminite because the conflict is not well defined?

Yes! Assignments 4 and 5 are about FINDING THE BEGINNING. The Beginning IS DEFINED AS the point at which the two elements which will conflict to generate the plot first come in contact.

Where the conflict is "messed up" -- you lose a)Identity of the Protag and b)POINT IN TIME when the story begins. EVERYTHING goes to pieces on you when you screw up identifying the conflict.

The reverse is also true: get the conflict correctly stated in your mind and you will KNOW the correct point in time to begin the story, you will know what elements must be present at the beginning, you will know who the protag is and who the main POV character must be, you will know what they DO that starts the ball rolling. Once you've nailed the conflict, you KNOW the middle and the end -- it's only a matter of finding those points, nailing them in place, and calculating the length between them to graph your pacing, place the climaxes, and start writing.

If you can't articulate the conflict, you can sometimes find it by articulating the THEME -- because themes and conflicts have to be chosen as a matched set. When you know one, you know the other.

What it boils down to is that you must KNOW one of the story-elements. Only one. From that one you generate (figure out, derive, calculate) all the others because they all must be a matched set.

That's true whether you're working in a genre or category -- or in general fiction, or even BIOGRAPHY and other nonfiction. Biography is a field that is particularly sensitive to THEME and CONFLICT. Biography is "the story of this person's life" -- so you know the protag, but you have to FIND THE CONFLICT.

*MargaretI* need mechanism to ask questions about assignments BEFORE submitting

Yes, as I've said elsewhere, you folks are our "alpha-testers" -- this course proceedure setup is not even ready for beta-testing yet. I have in mind some things we can do "next time." But that is why we scheduled this particular class meeting for right before Assignment 5.

*MargaretI* I catch glimpses of what to do but don't always understand

As long as you are focusing your attention on trying to "understand what to do" -- you won't be learning this stuff at your maximum rate. Forget what we WANT you to do. Forget what you're "supposed" to do. Figure out what you need to learn, and figure out a way to teach it to yourself. This isn't an undergrad course. It's post-post Doc level work -- you are forging out into the Vast Unknown and it is up to you to make an "original" and truly MEANINGFUL contribution to the field of all human (and non-) knowledge. You and you alone must ask the question, design the experiment, execute the experiment, and evaluate the results, and design the next experiment -- all toward the end you alone have chosen, not toward anyone else's goals -- least of all MINE for pity's sake!

You need to learn to handle CONFLICT in your own, specific, different, ideosyncratic, artistic way -- not in mine.

That's why CONFLICT is the Essence of Story -- it's the one thing that ALL stories have. Some don't have a protag. Some don't have a clearly defined theme. Some have a theme that says theme isn't useful or important. Some don't have a setting (i.e. a limbo set). Every single rule there is can be violated by a writer proficient in writing WITHIN that rule. All but one. CONFLICT IS THE ESSENCE OF STORY. A piece that has no conflict is NOT CALLED A STORY. They've invented a lot of names for such bits and pieces. "Slice of life" "vignette" etc. From time to time, there's a market for such things. But you can't hit it big in that sort of market without mastering CONFLICT first.

So in this course you are trying to peel your inner eyes open and FIND the conflict in the stories YOU LOVE MOST. You are trying to learn to read like a writer, and write like a writer -- not like a reader.

If you've ever been in any profession that delivers a service to people, you know that what goes on behind the scenes works on a different mechanism than what goes on in front of the scenes.

The programmer thinks differently from the end-user.

The play-goer thinks differently from the actor.

The short-order cook thinks differently from the hungry patron.

The housing contractor thinks differently from the house-owner wanting rennovations.

The road-building contractor thinks differently from the driver. (which is why the tear up the road and then abandon it for 6 months)

And the writer thinks VERY DIFFERENTLY from the reader.

Most of the Assignment 4's were written by readers. What I did to that material in my commentaries, was what a WRITER would do.

I was showing, not telling, how to analyze for the skeleton, the conflict/plot set that forms that skeleton.

That skeleton IS NOT INSIDE THE DETAILS. It stands OUTSIDE the details.

In MOST amateur "writing circles" that critique each others' work, people focus on criticizing CHOICE OF DETAIL, and that's why people who learn writing that way often have no idea how to teach what they know. They've learned it backwards, in a time-consuming and very chancy way. In this course, we're showing you how to teach yourself this stuff FRONTWARDS -- starting with the core of the matter (conflict/plot) and working outward from there.

You all have demonstrated a pyrotechnic ability with words, ideas, creative detail. You don't need any lessons in that. CONFLICT though is another matter.

*KateKirk* have you got an example of an "outline" we can look at -- I read the posts about outline, but they are not really exemples

I thought the posts about outline had the following URLs in them: (if not, I hope I remember to add them)

http://www.simegen.com/writers/ is where to start.

There you will find links to

www.simegen.com/sgfandom/rimonslibrary/articles/zdnovout.html -- Jean's outline of Zelerod's Doom.

www.simegen.com/sgfandom/rimonslibrary/Zhagtony.html -- the general outline that started Jean's series of stories about Zhag and Tonyo that you saw furthered in Class #1.

Under VAMPIRE on http://www.simegen.com/writers/ you'll find two novel partials of my own to use as examples.

We expect to have more of these kinds of things up for you over the next few months. They're being retrieved from paper-only days as we dig them out of moldering old files.

We've invited other prof writers to contribute examples of their own.

*Patric* Jean says "Thats all" from her perspective of writing this stuff for years. We dont HAVE that perspective.

I think that LIFE and having volunteered for a number of huge jobs on simegen.com has given Patric too little time to sit and meditate over the immense amount of verbiage in /studentshowcase/ -- absorbing this "perspective" takes quiet, low-stress, concentration time, and he hasn't had any of that since the moment he volunteered to help us out with this course.

I'm not worried. The man's a genius and tremendously talented too. In a few months, he'll spend a day starting at all those words, and then BAM, he'll understand it, and write and sell a novel.

Someone remind us to write up the genre rules for a workshop post one of these days. They are, however, published by publishers in "guidelines" they send to prospective writers (in Romance this is done more than anywhere else), and you will find those rules in WRITERS MARKETS (an expensive book you can look at in your library) where publishers set down what they're looking to read.

What we're teaching you here in this course is called "strongly plotted". Go check out how many publishers want that. We'll work on strong-characters in another course. You can't do strong-characters without a strong-plot. "strong" in their parlance means this SKELETON that holds the work together. The editor has to be able to see the skeleton in the submission or they toss it back at you.

*Patric* Not for me, Greg. I want to know how my "instinct" fits in with the "rules", or if it does at all...

The way you get your "instinct" to fit "the rules" is to write the genre you read most.

*Ann* But if we can -see- the starfish ... but can't explain to someone else the starfish, I at least am stuck!

Ann is referring here to a comment I made in #classroom -- I HOPE we addressed this sufficiently.

FIND the pattern in books you like the most -- preferably find the SAME pattern in a whole stack of books (or stories or plays etc) you like the most. See how that same pattern is clothed in different details. LIFT that pattern out of the bed of details, put it down on your own computer screen, THEN create a layer of detail OF YOUR OWN around that skeletal pattern. THAT will be your Assignment 5.

Ann -- you learn to "explain the starfish" to your readers by STEALING a starfish, or harvesting one, and putting it on your own rock. Yes, at first it will show up too boldly and obviously -- but with practice you'll be able to mask it in the right amount of the right sort of detail.

You can't learn "the right amount or right sort" until after you've harvested a starfish and played with it yourself. THAT is Assignment 5.

You can use any PATTERN you want for Assgn 5 -- the one you discovered for Assgn 4, or go find another one. If you find another one, do all the stuff you did for Assign 4 over again, only GO ONE STEP FARTHER and dissect out the skeleton behind the details. "Dry" that skeleton -- get everything out of it that makes it LIVE as the other author's work. Put it up on your computer screen and MAKE IT LIVE with your own original detail.

What I've just described above is what you see in #classroom for the "demo" with Marge Robbins in this Class #2.

Jean is holding the SKELETON in her mind (the whodunnit formula) and teasing the "correct" details out of Marge's fertile (dare I say overactive?) imagination.

What we didn't have time to prepare properly for you is a WHODUNNIT skeleton for you to refer to as we developed this story. Why? Because Marge brought me this version of this story only the morning of the day this class was held. And I had read and commented on her last story -- which showed she had FINALLY gotten a grip on CONFLICT and PLOT=BECAUSE the previous evening.

But if you read what they began to do after I pointed out that Marge had in the back of her mind to use a FARRIS CHANNEL's first out-T partnering with this Cop as the primary story, you should be able to see Jean applying the WHODUNNIT formula in her questions. You should be able to write the formula from those questions, and write your own whodunnit from that.

*Robin* Are there posts on some of the basic (most simple) patterns? They come out in the commentaries - but that's AFTER we get it wrong...

The problem is that we don't know what we know that you don't know until you show us you don't know it (i.e. "get it wrong").

You are still focusing on the idea that it's important to "get it right" - that you can gain anything as a writer by "getting it right". Get that notion out of your head and you'll be selling within a couple weeks of that point.

The only thing that's important here is to learn that CONFLICT IS THE ESSENCE OF STORY, and that every story has a skeleton that holds it together. Each market has a preferred skeleton. Write ANYTHING around that skeleton and you'll sell to that market eventually (when tastes cycle around to your taste).

Once you understand that CONFLICT is the core, marrow, of the bones of that skeleton, and that such skeletons exist -- you will be able to find them everywhere.

ONLY the ones you find for yourself will do you any good. (which is another reason - other than that we didn't think of it) that we didn't write you up a whodunnit skeleton.

That's why the Assignments have you go look for an element, then come and write something using that element. That's a PROCESS you have to internalize, so you can go away from this course prepared to teach yourself the rest of what you must learn.

First analyze your market -- then synthesize something original using that market's preferred skeleton AS YOU AND YOU ALONE PERCEIVE THAT SKELETON. Not as I see it -- as YOU see it.

That's what I learned by Lesson 4 of the Famous Writers School correspondence course -- analyze the market YOU want to sell to. Then synthesize something designed for that market.

So I analyzed IF MAGAZINE OF SCIENCE FICTION -- I read the editorials carefully (I always had, but now I read from a writers' perspective) and I wrote a story in my favorite Universe (Sime~Gen) -- I sent that story in, and it sold on its first submission. Why? Because it was designed to. It was created to say (thematically) what the editor (Fred Pohl) had said in a recent editorial. So it sold, and I got paid $90 (in 1968 that still wasn't much, but a lot more than it sounds like today!).

I think that's all the comments I thought of during the class but couldn't type fast enough to say them.

Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg

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