Sime~Gen™ Inc. New Years Chat - 2007

This is a record of the informal chat among Sime~Gen participants, going on in a separate chatroom, concurrent with the formal business meeting.

The business meeting was called to order, proceeded through the agenda, and was formally adjourned.

This discussion flowed on in the background, before, during and after the meeting.

irc_name -- 'real' name
<JL`> -- Jacqueline Lichtenberg
<jean> - Jean Lorrah
<Karen> - Karen MacLeod
<Patric> - Patric Michael
<Jaye> - Jaye n'ha Naomi
<Laurraine> - Laurraine Tutihasi
<Kaires> - Kaires Tevesu
<Sosu_Su> - Susan Ross Moore
<MTZ> - Margaret Carr
<Seanara> - Seanara Coyote
<Kip1> - Kip Grimes
<Torun> - Torun Almer
<Shelly> - Rochelle Campbell
<Midge> - Midge Baker

Session Start: ___, Jan 01 ____

* Karen changes topic to '"side talk" channel of

<Karen> There. You're here.
<JL`> But it's not possible to get TO via dalnet! I don't know what's going on here.
<Karen> Dunno.... ask Patric via e-mail. Never heard of Dalnet getting you to 
It does say Dalnet in the corner of my IRC, but we're not on dalnet.....
<JL`> I emailed him my logon log for whatever good that will do. But at least I'm here now. I've got two sgtalk windows open apparently - and not sgchat.
<Karen> TILE THEM, JL.... you are in both. Check the headers on each room, they're different. Must have hit something odd, to come up with Log....not sure what I did.
<Patric> Ok.. Here I am... Mostly. I am logged in as Patric, and as "Log" on the other machine so we have a backup record...
<Karen> I should open another IRC window.... I can log twice.
<Patric> Yeah, well.. Remind me how to enable logging, will ya? These are new installations and I don't have the original scripts I made back then.
<JL`> OK, I think I have my windows sorted out -- now this is the chatter window, and the OTHER is for Business.
<Patric> Yes.
<JL`> The little icon in the upper left of the window. click, menu, log should be checked.
<Patric> And be keenly aware I have no business...
<JL`> Well, some years there's more business than others.
<JL`> MTZ is who?
<MTZ> thanks, Karen
<MTZ> Margaret Carr, epress
<Karen> Welcome.
<Patric> Heh. And this year I haven't BEEN here...
<Karen> The other room is the business chat, and we'll let you speak there in time, Margaret.
<Patric> Yes Karen, and mine always backs up your logs. Laugh.
<JL`> Oh, Margaret! Yippie! So glad to see you and to have heard of your success with the publishing endeavor this year.
<Karen> Patric, surely, you have SOMETHING to tell us regarding the domain.... that's the "business" I think JL means.
<MTZ> thanks, JL
<Patric> Yeah. I am behind in maintenance, upgrades, and improvements by about TWO YEARS... Yeah, I REALLY want to report that. not. Also, be advised that I am not particularly up to snuff today. I seem to have burned (chemical) my face yet again. Puffed up like a toad on one side. Bizarre...
<MTZ> only two years? that's pretty good
* Karen smiles, at Patric mentioning how behind he is with Simegen work... "Oh, no, Patric. Hope you heal quickly."
<Patric> MTZ: LOL. That's really BAD for me...
<JL`> Actually, Patric has been off his pace on doing server related chores, but way ahead of pace doing his day-job! Chemical burns on the face? oy. What misery.
<Patric> JL: From the log you sent, it appears you had a different host name, and certainly had a different port number.
<Karen> I later gave JL the right information....
<JL`> I (having been a chemist) was once working with epsilon caprolactam and got it under my skin, and had (not painful) lumps of irritation for YEARS. But it's gone now.
<Patric> While we have a minute, point your browser here:
<JL`> Yeah, Patric, something in my setup on IRC just changed while I wasn't looking. I was set to auto-logon. All the settings changed, and the new port number disappeared. I made all new logon settings, so I guess I'm here. But here's something else different. A couple years ago you showed me how to turn on the little wizard that talks. I NEVER got it to work. Suddenly today he's in the tray and reading me what people type in the off window.
<Karen> something's loading on that URL.... taking awhile, though.
<Patric> JL: I don't know why this crops up, unless its a developed sensitivity to urethanes... Acts just like a burn with bumps...
<MTZ> click on slideshow... oooh
* Karen smiles. Nice, Patric
<Patric> JL.. Subsequent upgrades to WinXP has enabled the agent abilities. Before we had to download extra things.
<JL`> Oh, that's your ICEBURG that you made and they hauled around the country?
<Patric> Karen: I will count that as my excuse for being behind. I made the BLUE thing in the background. It is 28 feet tall, and 35 feet long.
<Karen> I know you did, friend. We talked about that while you were making it. For some reason the main part of your page won't load.
<Patric> Yes, PART of it at least. See the pointy bit sticking out the top? That's actually one branch on a 35 ft long tree...
* Karen nods. So I see, in the small image.
<JL`> Wizard is reading Karen's comments out loud but not other things.
<Patric> Ridiculously heavy tree.
<Karen> I wonder why your "wizard" is doing that, JL..... Now I got to the larger image, Patric. WOW!
<Patric> Sorry JL. I had to download and install new mIRC for this year, and I can't remember how to set up the wizard thingy. It under Option, agents, I think, You can choose what it reads out loud, I think.
<JL`> Did they draw you a picture or give you blueprints for that? (the iceburg)
<Patric> Tools, Options, Sounds, Agents. Checkmark what you want it to read.
<JL`> I just went through the wizard menu and couldn't find any way to fine-tune it -- but I could turn it off. I think it's cool.
<Karen> I'm using a very old IRC, that is blessedly silent.....
<JL`> Oh, there's controls inside IRC? Interesting.
<Patric> Laugh. What I had was a model in 1/10 scale, bad drawings, and a lot of arguing...
<Karen> My IRC is version 6.03 --- which works just fine, thanks.
<Patric> JL: I actually like the wizard too... Quite handy to monitor many things at once. BUt getting used to mentally deleting the irrelevant stuff takes a little while...
<Patric> Hi Shelly!
<JL`> I must have an older IRC - it in options under DCC -- but I changed it to see what happens. Oh, now it's reading Karen in the other window!
<Karen> You got here, Shelly....great.
<JL`> Good grief, it's reading WHAT I TYPED.
<Shelly> Hi!
<Shelly> I'm still figuring this out. Let me get my screens aligned right...
<Karen> Seems like that's a perfect setting JL for visually disabled people. But my old version can't do that, thankfully.
<JL`> Shelly, I've got my computer reading me the posts out loud -- now I'm going to try to turn it off.
<Patric> JL: Yes. Its not too discriminating... Reads everything or nothing.
<Patric> And yes Karen, it is invaluable for finding speliong (sp) mistakes.
<Karen> I'll stick with the old, thanks. I'm using my old workhorse Windows 98 desk machine as usual.
<JL`> It reads pretty darn good, even typos!
<Karen> I HATE when the computer reads for me.
<Shelly> Hi, Karen!
<JL`> Well it's a novelty, but I wouldn't like to depend on it.
<Shelly> Hello everyone!
<MTZ> hi Shelly
<Karen> AOL almost connected me at 7200 --- yes seventy two HUNDRED earlier, so I reconnected. Why it did that, I dunno.
<Karen> Glad you got here, Shelly. Hi.
<Patric> That's how you can FIND the typos...But, you should hear the new voices that exist.... There is even "Lee" who has an Australian accent. Much harder to distinguish between a human voice and a machine voice.
<Shelly> That's funny JL! At least for once you know what your computer's thinking! :-))
<JL`> Yeah, but now I turned it off so it'll only read the side comments.
* Karen smile. "One of these days, Patric, I'll get completely upgraded. Find me a money tree, with unlimited $ first, please."
<Shelly> Me too. Thanks Karen.
* Patric laughs. I have given up getting people to upgrade anything. No pressure from me... :)
<JL`> I've forgotten how to make the * comments.
* Karen smiles. "I need a new battery for the laptop. I think the one in it is gone...and it needs more memory. Then I need a whole new desk machine. Write /me and it will do what you say, JL
<Patric> Type /me
* JL` let's see if that works?
<JL`> oh, it worked!
* Karen smiles. "Of course it worked."
<JL`> OK, thanks, now I can talk in purple prose.
* Karen is laughing.
<Shelly> Uh, I don't get it.
<Karen> You can change the color of the 'prose' too.
* Patric is rolling his eyes and grinning.
<JL`> On my display the side comments with the * are colored purple.
<Karen> That's the default.
<JL`> Purple prose is what you call something that's vastly over-written.
<Shelly> Yes, mine too. I don't get how to do it. /me?
<Patric> What I usually write, in other words? Purple Prose? LOL
<Karen> If you have IRC, type the /me before you write anything else.
<JL`> Well, Patric, you do have a TALENT for it, but you also know when to use it.
* Karen smiles.
<Shelly> OH!
<Karen> type me/smiles and it comes up like this.
<JL`> MIDGE!!!
* Shelly I think I've got it!
<JL`> Yeah, Shelly, now you can talk purple, too.
<Patric> JL: !!!! LOL! That's almost ... gently harsh! LAUGHING really hard...
<Shelly> Hello Midge!
<Midge> Hi Folks, I made it!
<Patric> Hi Midge!
<Karen> Sign into the other room, too, Midge.
* Shelly Wahoo!
<JL`> I'm so glad you could make it -- your first New Year's Chat with us!
<Midge> How?
<JL`> Shelly and Midge -- I want you two to MEET EACH OTHER.
<MTZ> hi Midge
<Shelly> Hi, Happy New Year!
<Karen> Depends on how you connected to our chat, Midge. If you used the website, I can tell you.
<JL`> Shelly, Midge is a new reviewer with us, working on creating her own online writing school/domain, and is an aspiring WRITER with oodles of talent.
<Midge> Hi. Yes, I used the simegen website.
<JL`> Midge, Shelly is our most advanced writing student here -- almost ready for Journeyman status.
<Shelly> Hello Midge! Welcome aboard!
<Midge> Hi Shelly!
<JL`> Shelly, remember we were talking about writers needing someone to READ ms's before sending them out? Well, cultivate Midge and she might do you a favor sometime.
<Patric> Hello Lexie... How goes?
<MTZ> hi Lexie
<Midge> Karen? How do I connect to the other room?
<Karen> Try this, Midge: To open the second screen, go back to the blue-edged page and click on 'Join Channel'. Type '#sgtalk' in the blank line, hit 'okay', and the other interactive window will open.
<JL`> Lexie!
* Shelly Sounds good to me. What kind of writing do you like to read Midge?
<JL`> ho JEANNNN!!!!
<jean> Okay--found it. Hi, everyone.
<Shelly> Hello Jean!
<MTZ> hi jean
<Karen> I see you in both places, Midge, but you can't talk in the second room yet.
* Patric laughs... The poor Wizard is already overloaded... He is lagging far behind.
<Karen> I'm so glad my IRC is quiet, and I can still see so I don't need a new upgrade.
<JL`> People with an @ by their name on the side list can type messages in the room.
* Patric still prefers to hears it so I can monitor these chats, read a beta testing forum, and talk to a buddy overseas... :)
<Karen> The other room is moderated, so it will be easier to clean the logs once we have the business meeting.
<JL`> MIDGE -- tell Shelly what you like to read.
* Karen chuckles at Patric. "I'm just glad both cats are sleeping, and not annoying. It's 4 p.m. Eastern if you want to start your meeting JL, Jean."
* Shelly Talk about multi-tasking, sheez...
<JL`> My wizard is now reading only the purple prose.
<Patric> Heh. I planned ahead ... Stuffed them silly and now they are too sleepy to move.
<Lexie13-l> Steve here... Lexie's napping, so I'm just logging for her. She *might* join you later...
<JL`> Now we have two midge's.
<Shelly> Why two?
* Karen waves. "Send her our regards, Steve."
<Lexie13-l> ok, will do :)
<Patric> No worries Steve.... The logs will be posted...
<Karen> There are 2 Karen's also, Shelly.....
<Seanara> Hi, everyone
<JL`> I wonder if anyone else had trouble logging in - we usually have a few more by start-time THERE'S SEANARA!
<MTZ> hi Steve, hi Seanara
<Midge>Because I thought I logged myself out and logged back in.
<Patric> SEANARA!!!! How are you?
* Seanara smiles and waves to everyone
<Shelly> Hello Seanara! Happy New Year!
<Seanara> Happy New Year to all. Hi, JL, Hi Steve, Hi Patric, Hi Shelly, hi everyone else..
* Karen grins. "Hey Lady Seanara! Haven't "talked" to you since last night."
<MTZ> hi kaires
<Seanara> good to "see" you. Hi, Kaires! ~~mirth~~
<JL`> Here comes Kaires - she's IMPORTANT
<Patric> Hi Kaires... Got your messages.. Will answer them later... Thanks.
<Shelly> Hello Kaires!
<jean> Hi Seanara, Kaires.
<Seanara> Hi, Jean!
<kaires> Hello, folks. Good to 'see' you all.
<JL`> OK, let's start by a quick alert about what awards we want to give out this year. Kaires, do you have that URL where you listed our awards handy?
<JL`> I found it!
<Midge>Hi Patric, MTZ, Seanara, Kaires, Jean, JL, and whoever I missed.
<kaires> Seanara, I was reviewing old chats and saw 'ar ball'
<Seanara> I love that expression, Kaires.
<Seanara> Oh, Karen, I'm logging in chat, so in case your ISP or IRC shens you, I've got a backup log.
<kaires> I'll be using that.
<Karen> Thanks, Seanara....I'm also double logging.... two IRCs like I usually do.
<JL`> Check that page everyone and consider if there's someone who's done something special this year that deserves an award.
<Karen> NOT ME !!! Anyone else, thank you.
<JL`> We don't have to award any awards -- but I do love to make a record of who's contributed to well, EVERYTHING, around here.
<Karen> Loading the page.
<Shelly> I'd like to nominate Karen for the Nager Award.
<Midge>I wouldn't have my website up without Patric and Karen helping me.
<JL`> Meanwhile, you're thinking back over the year and studying, we can start the business meeting. It's nice to have department reports, if we can muster them, but Patric has already declined to do that this year. KIP - WELCOME!!!!
<jean> Hi, Kip.
<MTZ> hi kip
<JL`> Kip, go to that page I just posted for the list of awards we'll be voting on later.
<Karen-> I'll open the business room for award nominations if you want me to, JL, Jean.
<JL`> Not yet, Jean's turn first.
<Karen-> OK...
<Kip> Hello all.
<Patric> Actually, I think I will make a bit of noise, Jacqueline... What's ahead, if nothing else... Let me know when its time...
<Patric> Hi Kip!
<JL`> OK, we have ONE department head. Kaires can you report on SimeCenter and the parties?
<kaires> unaccustomed as I am... I actually didn't write any formal reports this time.
<JL`> Type off the cuff and Karen will fix up most of the typos.
<Karen> Wing it, Kaires....
<JL`> Jean - open the business meeting and call for reports and so on. And reports go in the other window.
<Karen> That's great to hear, Jean. All expenses paid.....
<Shelly> Oh, I read in chat and respond here?
<Karen> Yes... the other is for business, and you can't reply there, until I removed "Moderated."
<JL`> Jean has the floor, she'll open it to others. The @ by your name means you can type there.
<Shelly> Okay. Sorry!
<Karen> No problem. You'll catch on.
<JL`> So watch what Jean's posting in the Business meeting - virtual podium she's standing on, big old microphone.
<Shelly> Gotcha.
* Karen is just keeping the "audience" quiet until Jean calls on them to speak.
<Seanara> Hooray! That's not a hooray.
<Karen> No, its NOT a hooray, because I know we have books in S~G to release.... now we have to find a publisher.... **sigh**
<Patric> At least not the last part. ;)
<MTZ> it has been brought up at Baen's Bar, btw
<Karen> Well, that's something, Margaret.....
<Patric> Really? What do they say at the Bar?
<Seanara> What is Baen's Bar?
<JL`> Laurraine - another department head!!! Fetch her up here, Karen.
<MTZ> and I saw that JL was going to the SD con where Eric Flint is GOH Since he has been very active in bringing back a lot of books... Seanara, forums for Baen Books
<JL`> Well, that's great to hear - make noise all over the place, someone might pay attention.
* Karen applied to edit for Baen, but they never got back to me about working with them.
<MTZ> Patric, there have been a lot of you should contact author x posts, including some for SimeGen
* Seanara nods to MTZ appreciatively. "Online, on their website, on IRC, elsewhere?"
<MTZ> Karen, they seem to be hiring from Barflies, mostly
<Patric> MTZ: Thanks... I haven't poked around in there for quite a while...
<MTZ> Seanara
* Karen shrugs. "Unfamiliar with 'Barflies.'"
<Seanara> Thanks, MTZ.
<JL`> Karen - get Laurraine up here where we can talk. Also Torun just joined us in Business.
<Karen> How can I do that without interrupting Jean? The headline says also join #sgtalk
<JL`> Jean's talking about some of the other stuff we're doing.
<MTZ> also, they are giving away free webscriptions for anyone disabled
<JL`> Flag her privately.
<Patric> Seanara... Baen did something quite interesting.... They got most of their recurring authors to pony up the first of a series on whatever universes they write and giving them away as free ebooks.
<Karen> If she has IRC, she'll see it....maybe not on the website.
<MTZ> this is in addition to that, Patric, the regular webscriptions
<Seanara> Patric, that is interesting. I'd think it ought to help attract interest. What do they say now, "generate a buzz"?
<MTZ> Seanara, check out th eFree Library and Eric's Prime Palaver
<Patric> It was a very shrewd move, actually. I know for a fact that I already HAVE most of the books they offered in hard copy which is cool, but like so many others, I read the FIRST book, then have to go buy the REST of the series' volumes
<MTZ> he talks some about how the freebies have helped print sales
<Seanara> MTZ, is that a website also?
<Karen> I did announce the free books for the handicapped in our Newsletter.
<Seanara> or is it on the Baen site?
<MTZ> yes, Seanara, but you can get to them all from the page
<Seanara> Thanks, will have a look, MTZ.
<Patric> MTZ: Yes, exactly.. What's cool is that I started reading genres Oi would not usually buy, got hooked, and buy those as well.
<Karen> JL --- are you actually doing something with the Vampire anthology --- the one I edited?
<Seanara> I am wondering if anyone from S~G knows Betsy Wollheim and might talk to her about S~G. <thoughtful look> that is, if DAW books is still publishing.
<MTZ> hi Laurrain
<Seanara> Hi, Laurraine.
<Laurraine>Hi, I can only stay until 2 PST.
<Patric> Hello Laurraine...
* Karen smiles. "That means the anthology I edited earlier may be printed? Hi, Laurraine."
<Shelly> Hello Laurraine! Happy New Year!
<Midge>Hi Laurraine!
<Laurraine>Happy New Year to everyone.
<jean> S~G failed abysmally at DAW twenty years ago. No one there would have any reason to think it would do any better now.
<Seanara> I see, Jean. <regretful look>
<Patric> Except for the new blood that is inevitable after 20 years, Jean? Worth a peek, at least.
<MTZ> But Eric Flint might be interested, Jean, if JL could hook up with him at the con
<JL`> OK Jean - you're on again.
* Karen smiles. "I worked on that anthology a year ago!"
<Midge>Think positive. Maybe they've got 20 yrs more sense now.
<Seanara> We'd hope that things might be different in 20 years.
<MTZ> I think Baen gets a lot better sell-through, and has much more independence
<Karen> Maybe new people at DAW would consider S~G where they didn't all those years ago.
<JL`> Actually the same people still control DAW - but this anthology isn't S~G related except through the vampire theme.
<kaires> And we didn't have The Unity Trilogy out 20 years ago
<JL`> Jean?
<MTZ> I'm not keen on all the directions Toni is going in, but still....
<kaires> I know MM claimed it wasn't a success, but when we had Alan there reporting, he says they couldn't pack boxes fast enough to fill the BACK ORDERS
<JL`> I wonder if she's lagging.
<JL`> Yes, and then they changed their minds -- we don't know why. Jean's back - listen up now. She's going to call for department reports soon.
<Karen> Well, the vampire anthology has been in process for more than a year, maybe we can get a foot in the door then. I think Laurraine should report first since she said she's on limited time. Laurraine, you can report now.
<JL`> OK Laurraine - you're on!
<Karen> I've been helping with interviews when you ask me to, Laurraine.
<MTZ> wondered about the reviews bit
<Karen> Laurraine's department..... I wish I had more time to help you, Laurraine. But I may be getting more editing work. (hopefully)
<MTZ> what qualifications is she looking for in reviewer volunteers?
* Patric mutters.. Participation. :)
<JL`> Thank you Laurraine! Yes, the pool of talent where we'd search for a replacement for you is in reviewers -- but we can't seem to get enough of them. And I've heard something similar going on at other review sites.
<Karen> Ask her...I think we have it online, and it has been mentioned in the Newsletter.
<MTZ> lol, Patric
* Patric grins ruefully.
<Karen> Come on, Patric.... Karen smiles. (Encouraging)
<Midge>No, Patric's right.
<Laurraine>For a reviewer, you just need interest in writing and the ability to learn to improve your writing if needed.
* Patric waits to be opped...
<Karen> Patric IS OPPED.
<Patric> Oh duh...
<MTZ> um, I have cataracts started and the SimeGen website is hard for me to navigate/see
<Laurraine>To help, an ability to learn a bit of html, the ability to make decisions.
<Karen> Has been opped all this time. :-D
<JL`> One problem I think may actually be that FEWER PEOPLE READ. After all, it takes a reader to make a reviewer. There are actually quite a number of titles being published, but fewer copies of each title are selling. One glance at Locus shows the proliferation of small publishers -- and readers don't want to pay money for a book they aren't sure will be readable. So we're suffering from the same publishing-is-collapsing syndrome in the reviews department.
<Karen> And those who have writing contracts can't really write --- my newest author from the New Publisher needs help...lots of it from me. She writes in run-on sentences, and says that was how she was taught to write.
<Laurraine>Considering that most review submissions are self-published, we get some astronishingly good books.
<JL`> Kaires, you'll be next - then we can get to the stock awards, then the nominations for other awards. That URL again
<Laurraine>Simegen helps general readers by posting reviews.
<JL`> Check that page for the list of awards you think hard workers here should be up for.
<JL`> Yes, Laurraine, that's exactly why our operation is so important! We're finding good books everywhere.
<Shelly> That is very true. Many of the self-published books I've read have been excellent.
<Laurraine>Plus we get submissions of some books from major publishers.
<MTZ> sigh, but epress books being ebooks, seem to get lost in the shuffle
<Laurraine>That's why the reviews are even more important.
<Karen> There's a proliferation of new e-publishers, including the new one I just received a contract from.
<Karen> The publisher doesn't know how to work in Word, so doesn't even format the books well.
* Shelly Congrats Karen!
<MTZ> I know, Karen, and 90% of the ones that were around when epress started in 2000 are gone now
<JL`> People want to write fiction - people want to read it - what's broken down is the FICTION DELIVERY SYSTEM and in response entrepreneurs are making NEW publishing companies. Eventually a new system that includes e-books and the internet will develop. S~G Reviews is part of the solution!
* Karen smiles at Shelly. "I won't be making much money, but my name will be heard of. Yes, I know, Margaret. NBI was one that started in 2000, and is gone now."
<MTZ> yep, a few months after epress, and with about 50 times the startup funds
<Karen> NBI owes me several hundred dollars I'll never see. Oh, well.
<JL`> Which shows it's not MONEY that does the trick. In any other business, it is all in that initial capitalization.
<MTZ> lol, being too stubborn to give up helps
<Karen> I agree, Margaret...stubborn helps.
<JL`> Here, it's knowing books, good writing and good reading, and how to put the people together.
<Laurraine>Just to let you know, my target date for stepping down from running reviews is May 2008, barring unforeseen events.
<Karen> Hope you can do that, Laurraine, and find someone to replace you.
<JL`> Don't miss what Patric's saying - he's absolutely right we have a great deal here you don't find everywhere.
<MTZ> Laurraine, I'll try to find you some volunteers
<Midge>I think part of the problem is that every other online marketer is selling or giving away ebooks as a merchandising ploy.
<Laurraine>Well, I won't run the section beyonde that date.j
<JL`> And a big part of that is Patric himself - man's a genius. (underhanded behind the back comment)
<Karen> I was gonna say that, Jacqueline. He does so much more for the domain than I do.
<Midge>People are becoming jaded.
<Shelly> Can reviewers be found by 'advertising' on boards such as Craig's List?
<MTZ> dunno, Fictionwise sure sells a lot of ebooks
<Midge>Oops - didn't mean that last one.
<Karen> I've tried to find jobs through Craig's list, and every one I've applied to, never responded.
<JL`> We do need to find a replacement Dept head for REVIEWS - but the truth is, nobody can replace Laurraine. She's had the job longest of anyone, and has done a better job than anyone.
<Shelly> No, advertising to get book reviewers for S~G.
<JL`> Any List we're mentioned on could turn up the right person.
<Laurraine>Thanks, Jacqueline, but flattery won't make me change my mind about my retirement date.
<Midge>Karen, John and I have lots of websites and advertising capability.
<Karen> WE also need to give Kaires a break. She's done SimeCenter for several years now.
<Midge>Give me text, we'll put it out for you.
<Seanara> Patric, will IRC still exist as we know it?
<Shelly> I've had great luck with Craig's List. I would be more than happy to be a point person in recruiting more book reviews.
<kaires> Thanks, Karen! I 'preciate the comment.
<Laurraine>Give it a try. Couldn't hurt.
<Karen> Reviews is Laurraine's department. You need to talk to her, Midge, as to what she needs.
<JL`> Oh, look what patric's talking about! What a vision!
<kaires> I'd really like to get caught up on the OTHER sites I'm supposedly maintaining.
<JL`> Shelly, you have the job! Go RECRUITING!
* Karen smiles at Kaires. "You've done SimeCenter for a LONG time. You can use a replacement, too."
<kaires> Hi, Torun. Glad you could join us.
<kaires> Thanks for the neat Christmas card.
<Shelly> Were you speaking to me Laurraine?
<JL`> Hi Sue!
<Laurraine>Yes, Shelly, I was speaking to you.
<Karen> Hi, Sue !
<MTZ> hmm, is Patric talking about php?
<Shelly> Cool.
<JL`> No, php he doesn't like. Too hackable. But there are other ways to do it that are safer.
<MTZ> and how! That was how epress got hit with the trojan
<Karen> Patric has some wonderful ideas, we've been talking about.... and I still think we have more housecleaning of the server to do.
<JL`> Like any house, it's a constant upkeep job.
<Karen> I have to clean the various list spam traps daily now. Doing them weekly became impossible.
I still have 14 of them to do tonight.....
<Laurraine>Spam is a huge problem. Patric was able to eliminate some of them for me, but the simegen address gets more spam than my other eddresses combined.
<Midge>You don't have "select all" "delete"?
<kaires> vtect & rimon get several hundred a day, each.
<JL`> We may discuss spam load dodges in a few minutes.
<Karen> My Simegen addresses are ALL spam. Sometimes there's a valid mail piece, but not many.
<JL`> Platform independence is a biggie.
<MTZ> yes!
<kaires> I don't dare do "select all" "delete" - one in about 1500 is a real message, and I don't want to miss it.
<Karen> Hey, as long as I can possibly use FTP, IRC and such as they stand, I'm not going to have much of a problem adapting.
<kaires> We got three new active members on simegen-l last year from "real" messages sent to rimon
<Laurraine>As it is, some legitimate e-mail does sometimes get deleted. We apparently lost a potential reviewer than way earlier this year.
<Karen> Right now, the "change my name for Founding 400" which is a form, gets spammed.
<Patric> Ok. I am done.
<JL`> Laurraine, that's why if I spot one that looks like spam but isn't, I'll recycle it past you just in case.
<Midge>I clean my yahoo email every day. Hundreds. I scan first, pull out the good stuff, then poof! Takes about 15 minutes.
<JL`> Jean?
<JL`> Patric's done.
<Karen> Kaires, next?
<JL`> See Midge - already you've got two jobs here - reviewer and victim.
<kaires> Okay, starting report on the business side.
<JL`> er - volunteer tester.
<Karen> Set to go, Kaires.... Tell us which Department......
<Midge>Yeah, I knew about the victim part. I'm Patric's penny-gig... er ...guinea pig.
<Karen> Oh, no. Jayge did art for the first Sime center.
<JL`> Yes, Jayge will be MISSED.
<Karen> As usuall, I'm also a tester for various things Patric does on the domain.
<Patric> LOL.. Didnt Lockwood do the art for the trilogy?
<Karen> Oh, Wow! Lockwood, cover artist for Unity Trilogy.
<JL`> Yes, that LOCKWOOD!
<Patric> Yep. Guess he did.. hehehe
<Karen> I have that in my screen saver. Never did yet order the wall art of it.....
<Jaye>How do you pronounce Jayge?
<Karen> Now if I can manage the coin, if Simecenter gets something out of it, then I should order the cover art.
<JL`> Who is on as GUEST?
<Jaye> Sorry -- I posted to the wrong board.
<Karen> Guest, you have to post here..... the other room is moderated.
<JL`> Oh, welcome JAYE!!!
<Jaye>I don't know how to change my nick.
<Seanara> Are you on IRC, Guest/Jaye?
<Karen> Are you connecting by the website, or my IRC
<Laurraine>I think you have to get off and get back on.
<Jaye>I wnat to get on with mIRC but don't know which server to get on.
<Midge>Just type over it.
<Patric> Jaye... Type "/nick <whatever>" without quotes...
<JL`> Jean? It says she's signed on, but she's not responding.
<Karen> Jaye, I would have told you, if I had known...Patric just told you...but I'll delete that line in the log.
<JL`> Does anyone have another item to discuss besides the stock awards?
<Karen> Jean is logged in --- in both rooms, but her AIM isn't up.
<Laurraine>I need to go. Bye.
<Patric> BYe Laurraine...
<Patric> mutter...
<Karen> Left quickly, she did.
<Patric> She's afraid JL will try to talk her out of retirement. :)
<Karen> Stock first, then the other awards traditionally follow.
<Midge>She said she needed to leave by 5 minutes ago.
<Karen> JL will Try.... Shen, I almost quit, remember, Patric?
<Patric> Yep. That, too, laugh.
<Jaye>Will dalnet get me here?
<Patric> I remember, Karen... So did I. Remember??
<Karen> No.... write me off list, and I'll tell you how to get here.
<Karen> Oh, yes, Patric, I do remember.
<Patric> Jaye: No. We are not connected to any other network.
<Karen> Any discussion on how to connect will be deleted from this chat, before it is posted online.
<Patric> Yay RBW!
<MTZ> mirc willl tell you it is Dalnet, but it isn't
<kaires> Ronnie Bob is super cool!
<Patric> MTZ: That's built into the server. Cant get rid of it.
<Karen> Hey, our stock awards often arrive quickly anyway.
<Jaye>Karen -- can you write me. I can't figure out this program.
<Karen> JL -- lucky you didn't flood the chatroom.....
<Karen> Sure, Jaye. Might need your address. Drop me a note.
<Karen> Jaye, are you online now with the website?
<Karen> Ok, drop me an e-mail, and I'll send mIRC instructions to you separately.
<Karen> Got, it Jaye. Am answering now.
<kaires> Lois does amazing things through CafePress and the health pages, and Lois let me serialize The Reluctant Spy on SimeCenter. I'm sure that attracted some good attention.
* Karen had such fun editing Reluctant Spy. Karen wants to go hide, JL..... Karen grins.
<Patric> Sit still girl. enough of that quibbling. :)
<Shelly> But it's true! You are the go-to person!!
<Patric> Shelly: It is true. She quibbles. Laugh!!
<Midge>She sure is!
<kaires> And Karen does this while being browbeaten by a vicious little orange creature named Taffy
<Patric> Hi Sue! I missed you earlier...
* Seanara laughs. "Taffy is a cute cat, but..."
<Shelly> And 'Mantha just sits by and watches it all happen...
<Karen> Taffy's latest trick is to sit right behind me in my wheelchair, and yell in my ear!
<Seanara> Hi, Sue
<Sosu_Su>Can't seem to talk!!
<Midge>Nominate Patric.
<Seanara> You're coming through fine here, Sue.
<Patric> Hush woman. LOL!!
<JL`> Nominations are now open in the Business chat.
<Patric> Sue means she can't think of anything to say...
<Karen> Everyone can speak in the other room.....
<JL`> I don't know what happened to Jean???
<Seanara> Thanks, Karen. Oh, we can talk without being opped, btw, as long as you took it off moderation.
<JL`> My list says she's connected in both rooms.
<Karen> I did take off moderation. Call Jean on the phone JL? Laurraine needs an award for her service, too.
<JL`> Laurraine should get a golden YOYO.
<Karen> Well, the YoYo works, too.
<Seanara> Can we have more than one recipient for the Digen? Or for any award?
<Karen> I don't think there's a limit on how many people can win the awards.....
<JL`> Yes, all the awards can have multiple recipients -- we usually try to make the award FOR whatever the person did.
<Patric> IF the yo-yo is an award for coming back even when you don't want to, that's Laurraine, and Kaires, too, for that matter.
* Seanara nods.
<Karen> Look here for the types of awards:
<JL`> Reviews has a lot of doing-over involved, so it's definitely a YOYO type job.
<Karen> Kip got disconnected.
<Midge>JL, can you phone Jean?
<JL`> Too busy running the chat. Jean's phone line uses the computer!
<Patric> How about her cell?
<Karen> Even _I_ have 2 phone lines.
<JL`> voting open. How many people do we actually have?
<Karen> 14 in business meeting, 15 here.
<Patric> I see 12, discounting the doubles...
<Karen> But 2 don't count....Patric and me are logging twice.
* Patric grins...
<Midge>So am I
<JL`> I see 8 votes - anyone else?
<Karen> The cleaned log will be posted in the chat section ASAP. I'll work on it tonight.
<Sosu_Su> Well, that looks better. Can I talk now?
<Patric> OBTW... Someone asked if IRC would be different. Yes and no, you'd have the option to choose whichever format (local or web based) you prefer.
<Patric> Sure can su. You are, in fact.
<Karen> Su isn't in the business meeting, though. #sgchat.
<Su> Finally! I have trouble with Java things -- they're so sparse!
<Seanara> Patric... yes, that was me who asked. I meant would we still use an IRC client and the Unity server to get connected? If we wanted to, that is. I don't quite understand what you mean by local or web-based, though. IRC isn't web-based.
<MTZ> Love JL's definitions for the Golden YoYo
<Patric> Seanara. Yes, you would. I want to get rid of the java bit if possible since I personally hate java, and since, as Su just said, is so sparse. I would only build a different interface into the existing server
<kaires> Patric also needs the Tech-Ton Award, or people who have benefited Sime~Gen fandom by the creation and/or application of new software and on-line tools.
* Seanara nods, a little puzzled by the technical terms. "Thanks, Patric..."
<Patric> Seanara: Consider how we chat here.. Local is using mIRC or some program that runs on your own machine. web based is currently the java page thingy some of us are using now.
<Seanara> "Oh. I see now." Seanara nods. "I use mIRC for the chat..."
* Karen smiles. "Patric can explain things very simply when necessary."
<Seanara> Good job, Jaye.
<JL`> Jean's back - I did the stock awards for you. I think 9 is a majority now, too?
<Seanara> Patric -- appreciate the explanation.
<JL`> Everybody vote?
* Seanara smiles.
* Karen tried to help Jaye via e-mail to get connected.
<Sosu_Su> Kaires, I owe you an apology about working with SimeCenter. I think some e-mails must've gone astray.
<Patric> Seanara. No problemo. :)
<Karen> We still have a SILVER YO YO, Patric.
<Seanara> :-)
<Patric> K. I was busy explaining and missed the noms...
<kaires> Aw, thanks, Patric.
<Karen> Silver Yo-Yo was CZ's award. Golden was AZ's. Same thing, different fanzines.
* Patric laughs.. If by yo-yo we look at the back and forth between you and me, that qualifies, right? :D
<JL`> Patric - yes, you've got the idea there!
* Seanara has an image of Patric and Karen playing volleyball...
* Karen is laughing. "Back and forth, yep."
* Patric laughs really hard.. Volleyball with a lit fuse bomb...
<Seanara> Or maybe ping-pong.
* Karen smiles. "Only if I play volleyball in my new mobility scooter.... Thanks a lot, Patric."
<Seanara> To be more peaceful about it. ;-)
* Karen is laughing.
<JL`> Vote for the Silver YOYO
<Patric> ping pong with Nitro... I think its save to say we were tossing daggers, eh Kaires?
<Sosu_Su> Aye
<kaires> would have to be rubber ones, though
<Patric> I made a bunch of them for the movie "The Hunted".... I still have a few left.
<kaires> wouldn't want to cause any damage
* Patric grins.. I even have two daggers for that movie that squirt blood... Too much fun at parties.
<Seanara> Aren't there more awards, like the Risa...
<Karen> Who donated computers for re-use....that's the Risa.
* Seanara nods.
<Karen> "One award at a time....." Karen smiles.
* Patric laughs and laughs.... Lets see if I get nominated for that "new technology" award next year after we chug through learning how to USE it. LAUGH...
<Shelly> I thought I had my cursor in this chat!
<JL`> voting the Tech-Ton Any other award nominations? Jean are you with us?
<Seanara> Nager.. or did we vote on that yet?
<JL`> I see you voted. Ah - another award.
<jean> I'm here, but lagging.
<Shelly> Can JL be nominated????
<JL`> I don't know. I won a Digen once.
<Shelly> LOL!
<Patric> What was nager for again?
<Karen> Nominate her anyway.
<kaires> for those who have given emotional support to others, guiding them through rough times or just generally "being there" when needed.
<Shelly> Basically emotional support/help.
<Karen> The Nager Award is for those who have given emotional support to others, guiding them through rough times or just generally "being there" when needed. (as pasted from the website)
<Patric> LOL. That cuts me out then.... :D
<Midge>Pish and tush
<JL`> voting on the Nager award
<Shelly> Very funny! How many hours have you spent walking each and every one of us through something?
<JL`> Any other votes?
<Shelly> And at weird hours of the morning and night??
<Seanara> Shelly for Out Territory Award. Nomination...
<Patric> Oh, I walk you guys through anything, but EMOTIONAL? not me... Laugh...
<Shelly> ??
<Midge>Don't laugh, hermit.
<Seanara> Brings people into the domain... your reviews would qualify, and your general helpfulness, Shelly... jumping right in and doing things.
<Midge> You do more than you think you do.
<Karen> Hey, I like that for Shelly.
<Patric> Hush you.. You give away all my secrets!
<Karen> I won't give away the rest of your secrets, Patric.
<Shelly> Uhh...thanks.
* Karen tries to duck and run.
* Shelly is ducking and running with Karen!
<Midge>Quick - trip them!
<JL`> Any other nominees for out-Territory?
* Patric snorts.. Now you know how WE feel, Shelly. Laugh.
<Karen> Actually, should be IN-Territory award, because of the work she does with reviews.
<Shelly> Too late, we have our bat wings in place. Get ready Karen...
* Seanara smiles.
<JL`> No, that's not S~G fandom work, so it's out-T.
<Karen> I'll roll over feet with my 75 lb. scooter.
* Patric snorts. You can't even hit the cats, Karen...
<Midge>In a pigs eye. You wouldn't.
<JL`> Voting for Shelly.
<kaires> I think Bruce qualifies...His other sites bring people in, don't they?
<Shelly> Sorry, you wouldn't. You're too sweet.
<Karen> Funny Patric..... Taffy won't move when I run the scooter. She likes to sleep in it....
<Shelly> Thank you everyone. <blushing>
<Midge>Picture Patric "festooned with cats
<Karen> People who deserve recognition get it, Shelly.
<JL`> Any other Awards?
<Shelly> I'll try hard to remember that.
<JL`> We don't have to give them all every year.
<Shelly> Thanks Midge.
<Midge>You're welcome.
<Patric> Midge.... The house is warm now so the festooning is no longer an issue. Now they are just underfoot all over the place.
<Karen> We don't give them every year. Some we have no nominees for, like the Risa. That's for computer re-use.
<Shelly> I like that image! A Furry Patric with whiskers.
* Seanara puts out some Pat-nip, er, catnip.
<Patric> Puffy today. and not furry cuz I shaved. heh
<JL`> I don't know where Jean is!!!
<Midge>No, his heat was out and his cats were clinging to him for warmth.
* Shelly is giggling insanely
<JL`> ah, there she is! OK, we are officially ADJOURNED. PARTY IN BOTH ROOMS.
<Shelly> Thanks Jean!
<Patric> Thanks to everybody!
<Shelly> How's retirement Jean? Have you slowed down yet?
<Midge>Should auld acquaintance be forgot..
<Karen> Thanks for coming, everyone....
<Midge>Glad to be here.
<kaires> In 2001, there was some fascinating stuff in the party report
<JL`> This was fun - we had people here who are new and some who don't usually make it (I think because of the later time).
<jean> It seems every time I think I can take time just for me, something jumps in and fills it.
<JL`> I haven't had any "just for me" time in living memory!
<kaires> We got to talking about what foods were poisonous to various folk, not just Simes and Gens, but also various types of Ancients.
<JL`> But you know, I'd really like that.
<Sosu_Su> This was my first NY chat. I don't think I have anything to contribute....
<Shelly> That's when you have to put on the brakes and continue on with the plan of taking time for yourself.
<Patric> Join the club Jean... Would you believe I actually have opera work sitting in the garage right now?
<Karen> This is the time to talk, and chat, Su, so talk away.
<Patric> Sue. Your attendance is a big one already. Any talking you do is icing on the cake...
<JL`> The genetics advances recently are beginning to delve into the vast differences among people - by race but also individuality -- and I believe they will eventually be able to figure out what is FOOD for you and what is POISON by examining your genetic makeup.
<Sosu_Su> Kaires, please e-mail me (again??) about helping you. I think an e-mail or two must have gone astray.
<Shelly> Su, we're in the same boat. This is my first chat as well.
<Seanara> Well, I sure hope coffee turns out to be food for me, not poison, JL. <grin>
<Sosu_Su> I'm embarrassed about not showing up before. I've been a fan for MANY years!
<MTZ> and tailor medicines too
<Karen> Seanara, you're a Gen anyway. I suspect you can drink coffee.
<Midge>Coffee is ambrosia.
* Seanara smiles.
<JL`> I love good coffee -- but I've been drinking jasmine tea as my regular beverage mostly.
<kaires> Su - will do. I've done some more automating and "templating" so it's easier.
<Karen> I prefer tea.
<kaires> Thanks for offering.
<JL`> I thought about making coffee the other day, and didn't want it. I found I preferred tea. But when I'm drinking coffee, I prefer coffee.
* Patric mutters.. Coffee is poison for me. lol.
<Karen> Oh, I'll drink coffee, but not often.
<Patric> Give me French Vanilla tea any day.
<jean> My metabolism changed a few years ago, and suddenly I liked coffee.
<Sosu_Su> I may have to go brew a pot.
<Seanara> I'll drink tea, but not often. Interesting, Jean...
<Midge>I drink coffee like cars use gasoline...and for the same reason.
<jean> Most of my life I couldn't stand it.
<MTZ> love the smell of coffee, but never liked the taste except in ice cream
<JL`> Tailoring medicines is going to be big business. There's nothing new that doesn't have dire side-effects for 1 or 10% of the population - sometimes 20%.
* Patric laughs... Good one, midge.
* Jaye has been drinking Celestial seasonings Sugar Cookie Sleigh Ride tea with stevia in it! Yum!
<Seanara> The trouble is, coffee smells better than it tastes. Even though good coffee does taste good.
<Midge>Thanks, Patric.
<JL`> Jaye, that sounds FANTASTIC.
* Jaye agrees coffee smells good but tastes yucky! Gack!
<Karen> Kaires, expect cleaning logs, tomorrow for posting.
<Jaye> Local grocery store was selling off the holiday teas for 50 cents a box! We sure bought them out!
<kaires> Jaye - Good to 'see' you. I enjoyed meeting you at the party.
<JL`> I love the smell of roasting ALMONDS - but they don't make tea out of almonds.
<Shelly> The smell of coffee is fabulous. But with loads of sugar and non-dairy creamer, I can drink at least a cupful once a month. <grin>
<MTZ> funny thing, about 25 years ago there was a de-acified coffee that was pretty good. it didn't last long
<Karen> Yes they do, JL. I can send you some.
<Jaye> I enjoyed meeting you, too, Kaires! Want to get together sometime? We need to come to Ridgecrest sometime soon.
<Midge>I put down about 2 pots of coffee a day.
<kaires> Is it arsenic that smells like almonds? That may be why there isn't any almond tea.
<Jaye> Cyanide smells like almonds, it seems I read.
<JL`> Yeah, arsenic -- but I've never actually smelled it.
<Karen> Yep...arsenic
<jean> Folgers has a new coffee that's easy on the stomach, brew only, no instant.
<Karen> Give them time, Jean to make it instant.
<Shelly> 2 pots a day? Whew.
<kaires> Jaye - Sure. My house is buried under inventory for Ari's Attic, my online store. If you can forgive that, you're most welcome.
<Sosu_Su> I'm into flavored coffees -- chocolate, hazelnut, cinnamon -- things like that.
<Jaye> What in the world do diamonds smell like? I've seen them and touched them, but never smelled them.
<Midge>And that's just to wake up before I go to work at night.
<Jaye> Ari's Attic?
<jean> I have a neat brewer that makes either one or two big mugs at a time.
<Jaye> What kind of store is it?
<Karen> Kaires' e-bay store, I think.
<Jaye> We're used to houses buried in stuff -- we're both packrats, too.
<Shelly> I can send my oldest son to help you wake up; he's as loud as they come! <smile>
<Seanara> Jean, that's useful. No leftovers...
<kaires> Well, it's an attic. It has all kinds of strange treasures in it (including Sime~Gen books)
<Jaye> LOL! I love it. We should open one, too. The divine only knows what we have here to sell!
<Karen> And my house is tidy, Kaires? Didn't we pack off a few 30-gal trash bags for the Goodwill this spring.
<Midge>Shelley, I grew up in Los Angeles. I've slept thru 'quakes.
<JL`> Midge's husband is starting up an online business - any tips?
<jean> I am slowly de-cluttering my house. The living room floor is now clear, and much of the room is starting to look as if an adult lives here.
<Midge>Yes, don't believe the "gurus'.
<Sosu_Su> I can help with some e-commerce tips. My site's going through a MAJOR revamp right now. I've had an online store for about 10 years now.
<JL`> I grew up in the San Francisco bay area. I know from rock-n-roll floors!
<Karen> I didn't grow up in Calif. but I did sleep through a small quake there once.
<Seanara> What do you sell, Sue?
<kaires> Midge - agree! but I do have some good ideas I've learned over the last 16 months as an eBay seller
<Jaye> I'm a Calif. gal, too. Usually awake for the quakes, though.
* Seanara joined ebay about a year and a half ago and finds it addictive.
<Karen> I slept through a small quake when visiting California in 1995 -- no worse than traffic on US 40. <Jaye> My SO this year and I are beginning selling jewelry on Ebay.
<Sosu_Su> Primarily buttons and mouse pads. Am branching into other things. Check out for the current site, and for the yet-unfinished new site
* Seanara smiles.
<kaires> One local SCA person has bought a bunch of items from only repeat customer so far.
<Sosu_Su> Thank you, Jacqueline! You folks may have seen my work already. I've done some prizes for the WorldCon parties and such.
<Jaye> I make semi-precious stone necklaces.
* Karen stays away from online selling place for the most part. Can't afford the coin they can cost.
<kaires> Jaye - what's your eBay id? I'll go look at your stuff. I love glittery objects
<Jaye> I'll be using my SO's. Not sure what it is.
<Midge>Sosu and Kaires, visit my website at There's a link to our business, and my email.
<Patric> Yeah, but Karen... What a way to window shop...!
<Jaye> He'll dig it out. hold on.
<Sosu_Su> Will do, Midge. Thanks for telling me.
<Karen> No thanks, Patric. My list of stuff I want is too long already.
<Jaye> His user ID is ericfoss.
* Patric laughs. No one said you had to BUY... Just look.
<Jaye> We don't have anything posted yet.
<kaires> Good. Thanks.
<Karen> Lead me not into temptation, I can find it for myself, Patric.
* Patric grins.. As you wish, master.
<kaires> Karen - A friend of mine used to say "Get thee behind me, Satan...And push me where I want to go."
<Patric> EricFoss?!! How is he doing? I haven't talked to him in ages...
<JL`> So folks - here we've done this 8 times. Do you think we should do it again next year? Make it 10 years and call it a REAL TRADITION?
<Jaye> That's a good one, Kaires! Yes -- let's do it again!
<Seanara> JL, you mean the New Year chat? Of course.
<Patric> Jl: Yes..
<Midge>Jaye, have you tried posting to FFA sites? You get a lot of mail back, but you gain visibility.
<JL`> Yes, New Year's chat.
<Shelly> If I hear a sound outside my window, I wake up. I couldn't live much less sleep through a quake.
<Jaye> Tradition, tradition -- tradition! (with music and dance.)
<Seanara> Shelly, you live in Brooklyn, right?
<Jaye> A la "Tevye."
<MTZ> yes, JL
<jean> We're among the oldest domains on the Internet.
<Karen> Are we really, Jean?
<jean> We're older than Yahoo, Google, eBay, etc.
<Patric> Jean. When was simegen registered?
<Karen> If only we had their income.
<Midge>Jaye, the song you want is "If I were a rich man"
<jean> 1999
<Patric> Nice....
<kaires> Did anyone see the movie "Frequency"?
<Jaye> I thought I found you in 98?
* Patric notes sheepishly that one of his is older, which only proves what a geek he is...
<Jaye> Am I mis-remembering?
<Karen> We didn't have our own server in 98 -- we were scattered in several places.
<MTZ> the mailing list was around in 98
<JL`> We were scattered over various domains a site here a site there and linked through a master index page.
<Patric> Yes. I love Frequency.
<Midge>Patric, the name sounds familiar. What's it about?
<jean> We had a collection of sites about S~G on various people's domains.
<Shelly> Seanara: Yes. And every fire truck that goes by, or police siren wakes me up. That's why I moved from 4th Ave (near BQE entrance) after only 6 months.
<kaires> At the start, the protagonist's brother complained about not buying Yahoo stock at the start.
<Jaye> Ah. Right. But you had a web presence.
<kaires> So the guy had a chance to talk to his brother 20 years earlier, and told him to remember a magic word: Yahoo.
<Patric> kid meets his father through a ham radio from 30 years ago, because of the northern lights overhead. Very cool movie.
<jean> Yes, we had a web presence for two or three years before we founded
<Karen> Yes, we did, Jaye, but Jean and JL made the corporation in 1999
<JL`> Then Dancer and his wife got us online through their server, then we bought a machine they hosted in AUSTRALIA, then we moved to USA hosting, then we upgraded our machine.
<Seanara> Shelly -- Yeow. I grew up in NYC and lived in Brooklyn for a few years...
<kaires> When you see him at the end, he's driving a Mercedes with a license plate that says YAHOO 1
<Shelly> Yes! I remember that movie now.
<Karen> I didn't live in Brooklyn or Staten Island, but I lived in the other boroughs.
* Patric laughs. I forgot about that scene...
<JL`> 5 years ago now I moved to AZ from Rockland County -- just north of NYC.
<Jaye> Who owns The domain?
<Seanara> We miss you at Darkovercon, JL.
<jean> Sime~Gen Inc.
<Shelly> What did you like most about Bklyn?
<JL`> Jean and I own it equally.
<Seanara> I know it's hard for you to get there, but..
<Jaye> That's what I had guessed.
<Seanara> Shelly, I liked Brooklyn Heights...
<jean> Jacqueline and I incorporated in 1999.
<Seanara> The Promenade, and Montague Street.
<MTZ> what state did you incorporate in?
<Shelly> Yeah, it's beautiful down there. I know someone who lives on Montague St in a doorman bldg. It's lovely.
<JL`> Jean lives in KY so that's where we're incorporated.
<Seanara> My memories are from 1978. It must be impossibly expensive there now, but glad to hear it's still pretty. I always liked the architecture.
<jean> There must be an agent of the corp living in the state where it's incorporated.
<MTZ> didn't consider Delawarwe?
<jean> At the time, Jacqueline was living in NY, where it costs a fortune and a half to incorporate, plus huge annual fees.
<JL`> I knew I was going to move, but had no idea to WHERE. So it's good Jean's a stick-n-the-mud.
<MTZ> yeah, bad as CA
<jean> KY was cheap for years. Now it's just reasonable compared to most states.
<JL`> I lived in NY since 1967 - moved right after 9/11.
<Shelly> Stationary -- not 'stick-n-the-mud'. <grinning>
<MTZ> roots
<JL`> stationEry!!!
<JL`> we're talking writer, here!
<Shelly> Yes, expenses are astronomical. But --- Oops.
<Sosu_Su> Practical -- that's a key word for jean.
<jean> I moved when I bought my house 35 years ago, and it took three years to recover.
<Shelly> I got it backwards.
<jean> I'm never moving again!
<Karen> Zipped right past me before I could "edit" you, Slelly.
<Shelly> I like my new name too!!
<MTZ> lol, you sound like my friend Nadene, Jean!
<Karen> And I type too fast for my own good.
<JL`> I've still got boxes of books sitting in rooms because there's no storage space and we haven't gotten to build shelves yet.
<jean> I have 35 years of clutter that I am slowly clearing.
<JL`> Lexie - you're BACK! Missed you.
<Patric> Welcome back, Lexie-Steve
<Karen> Kaires helped me shovel out my closets last spring, and now the apartment looks somewhat passible.
<MTZ> ah, rumors that there are actually horizontal surfaces somewhere?
<Lexie13> she'll be here in a minute
<Patric> No worries, Steve. :)
<jean> I hired a former student to help, and we do about four hours per week. The appointment makes me DO it--there are always other things I could legitimately do instead.
<Karen> "Like write, Jean?" Karen ducks and runs.
<MTZ> hmm
<JL`> I've seen a number of sign-on sign-offs during the chat -- Karen will have the whole record up soon.
<jean> I'm writing regularly.
<JL`> Kaires is very helpful that way, too.
* Patric laughs at the inevitable indignation on Jean's face.
<Karen> Oh, I'll clean the chats tonight. Kaires will have them tomorrow.
<kaires> Is that for writing regularly, ducking and running, or...
<jean> Lois and I have a screenplay ready and starting the rounds. We have another in first draft.
<Karen> Yay, Jean.
<Patric> For the suggestion that Jean is cleaning when she could be writing. :)
<jean> Jacqueline and I have an idea we're poking with sticks to see what happens.
<JL`> I actually LOVE our little idea.
<kaires> Jean, I'm looking forward to seeing that Christmas screenplay you mentioned.
<MTZ> sigh, you two, JL and Jean, are the ones who got me interested in ebooks. so sad they didn't work out for you
<Karen> Well, I could also be doing something else, and NOT be here, but do I want to leave here and do something else?
<JL`> It's got enough fantasy to be like our other work, but is very different and will reach a different market.
* Seanara looks interested. "JL, Jean, tell, tell."
<JL`> But I'm also working on a story (about half-done with a solid draft) that's very esoteric.
<Karen> That figures, JL....
<jean> Much more accessible than the complicated universes we usually work in.
<Patric> MTZ... Picture this possibility: Ebooks, coupled to a program that reads text, and a DECENT reading voice, and boom.. Ultra cheap audio books.
* Seanara nods.
<Karen> Now THAT I'd like, Patric.
<MTZ> someday, Patric
<jean> The decent reading voice is the problem.
<Seanara> JL wrote a story I read many years ago, which I LOVED. It's not S~G at all... called "Science is Magic Spelled Backwards."
* Patric does it often when he is at work.
<Midge>Get Nimoy.
<JL`> It's totally different and I actually don't think there's a market for it anywhere. It's contemporary and has a Jewish setting with Kaballah in it.
* Seanara nods.
<Patric> Jean. Not so much as it used to be. Trust me.
<Seanara> Suspense, urban fantasy, what? You never know...
<Karen> Nimoy to that would be good.
<JL`> Seanara I'm so glad you remembered SCIENCE IS MAGIC SPELLED BACKWARDS - I really liked that story.
<Seanara> Oh, I LOVED it... It was one of the best stories in that anthology...
<JL`> Nimoy has done some readings, but my favorite audiobook reader is THEODORE BIKEL.
<MTZ> what anthology, Seanara?
<jean> I've heard virtual voices that would be okay for non-fiction, but have yet to hear one that can perform the subtext in fiction.
<Karen> Yeah, that was a good story.
<Seanara> that was about the time the anti-nuclear movement was strong...
<kaires> We posted it on SimeCenter.
<Seanara> "Hecate's Cauldron", MTZ
<MTZ> rats, I missed it
<Karen> Did we put it in the Library, though.
<kaires> Usually, no one actually comments on SimeCenter stuff
<Seanara> and I always figured that there were _constructive_ uses for nuclear energy.
<Midge>Karen, he did the narration for the PC game Civilization IV by Firaxis.
<Seanara> If it was done right.
<kaires> But a couple of people commented on that one!
<Karen> I don't have time for games, Midge.
<JL`> Seanara, well, the thing I'm doing COULD be called urban fantasy, sort of. Urban mysticism.
* Seanara smiles.
<JL`> Jean will no doubt hate it, so she's going to be one of my first readers.
<Seanara> JL, it sounds like something I'd like to read.
<Karen> Margaret, contact me, I might find you the URL for SCIENCE IS MAGIC.....
<jean> The one we're working on together looks like a ghost story.
<MTZ> will do, Karen
<Patric> Jean... As it now stands, most voices you can buy also have an editor that you can use to MODIFY how it reads... Easy enough to go through one book in a universe, fix pronunciations, and let it handle additional books in a universe.
<JL`> Seanara, you and Jaye would love this -- but you have to admit that's a small audience.
<jean> It just has twists different from the traditional non-horror ghost story.
<Karen> Jl, I think I'm included in that audience.....
<Midge>Me too.
<JL`> We shall see.
<jean> Where can I buy a voice, Patric? And is it a single investment that can be used over and over?
<JL`> Anyway, I'll be finished with it probably in the middle of the year, and somewhere during that time Jean and I will start earnest work on this other thing (the ghost thing) that has an innately broad appeal.
<Patric> They sell a number of them. Some good, some not so good. They also sell licenses for re-distribution. Some licenses are a one time, good forever kind of thing. Very cool.
<jean> Thank you--will check it out.
<Patric> Yes. Once purchased, put it on a CD and you can install it on whatever machine you want.
<Seanara> JL, is this Kabbalah ghost thing going to be a story, a tree book, an ebook?
<JL`> Oh, Kabbalah and ghost are TWO DIFFERENT PROJECTS.
<Patric> Jean. You can listen to samples of every voice they have.
* Seanara nods
<JL`> This is all feeding into Sime~Gen - structured to reach out, grab audience, and drag them in. So the market it'll go to -- well, we'll see. I've got many ideas.
<Seanara> We'll hear about them when they're ready for public consumption, right? And how to get copies?
<Patric> jl, jean, shelly, karen... Check your email...
<Karen> Looking now at e-mail.
<MTZ> but, what about your other worlds? have you just shelved them?
<JL`> Oh, don't worry - subscribers to our lists and Newsletters will be bombarded with news when it happens.
* Seanara smiles.
<Shelly> okay
<Jaye> Great! :)
<JL`> Oh, one correction -- Jean indicated that our books would be coming back into print this year. Well, she got her contracts done, but my agent is stalled on the Kerns contracts (4 books, two never printed before), and then there's another set of volumes we're working on.
<Jaye> I need to leave for my walk.
<Patric> Jean.. Particularly look for AT&T Paul. Nice, pleasant, non-discript voice and a decent editor.
<JL`> This will be via Wildside Press/ Borgo. We have compilations of our SHORT STORIES, in volumes, that we were invited to submit -- so we made them up with Karen's help -- and the submission stalled in contract negotiation.
<Jaye> Take care, everyone. :) I look forward to seeing you all in email.
<Lexie13> two Kerns books never printed??!! DROOL!
<Karen> We edited those Kerns books some time ago.....
<JL`> Well, publishing is going REAL sllowwww.
<Patric> Sorry Jean... Its Neospeech Paul. Not AT & T
* Karen sighs. We've done so much, and nothing's come of it. At least - maybe - the vampire anthology, which I did a year ago.
<JL`> I think it will all work out -- and when it does, there will be a giant flood of titles like I had a few years ago.
<MTZ> Kerns!!!
<Lexie13> shen it, my husband is such a sweetie he let me sleep all afternoon.... Hi, it's really me now
<JL`> Oh, Daniel R. Kerns is one of my bylines -- NOTE that is R. KERNS -- not "Daniel Kerns" who is male.
* Karen smiles at Margaret. "I had a better appreciation of the Kerns titles when I re-edited them."
<Patric> Hi Lexie... :)
<jean> No email from you yet, Patric, but I've found and bookmarked the voice page.
<MTZ> I've been looking for extra copies of the two Kerns books I have because I think Les, our EPPIE finalist, would love them but I can't give up my only copies
<Karen> Lexie, Kaires will get the cleaned logs for posting tomorrow.
<Karen> Margaret, I have my work copies here..... which means I should have 2 sets. I need to check my library and get back to you on those.
<kaires> I may have extra copies. If I do, they'll be for sale in Ari's Attic.
<MTZ> oh? um, could I buy them from you and have you send them to Les?
<JL`> I have copies - cover price + shipping. I'm not sure what postage would run now -- figure 10 OZ. Paypal with cash.
<Karen> When you write me, Margaret, REMIND me of the things you're looking for. Postage can be easily calculated on the USPS website. I love it.
<JL`> Yes, it's always a good idea to put up your WANT LIST on simegen-l -- people run into the oddest things. Oh, and another thing. WE have sold a number of UNITY TRILOGIES via this year -- I haven't counted, should be 5-10 copies I think. However MM won't give us an accounting on those, because they are officially remaindered to be sold by jobbers.
<MTZ> btw, JL, you may have seen Les's posts as the Old Guy on EPICSocial
<Midge>And there are "swap meet" sites out there for exchanges/barter.
<MTZ> WHAT! That stinks, JL
<JL`> I didn't know Les was OLD GUY.
<JL`> No MTZ that's PUBLISHING. It's a business.
<Karen> Sold by Jobbers.... **sob**
<JL`> It's all in the contracts when you sign them.
<MTZ> yep, old and ornery
* Seanara shakes her head in dismay.
<JL`> This reading Wizard calls Seanara "See" Nara.
<Seanara> Disgusting but true... It would be better if you could get all those "jobber" copies, JL, and sell them directly on the Simegen.
<Seanara> ~~mirth~~
<Karen> MM owes money for a pre-order of To Kiss or to Kill I won't be getting.
<JL`> They're reaching people we couldn't. The fandom is still GROWING.
<kaires> Our one local bookstore has sold 6 copies of Unity Trilogy.
<Seanara> Actually, it's pronounced "Sha-Na-Ra," with the second syllable accented.
<Shelly> That's very pretty.
<JL`> It's the COVER too that sells that one - and we were promised a full line of Lockwood covers. It is SOOOO sad.
<kaires> I ordered one, told them to put it on the shelf, and when it sells order another...because i still haven't gotten the one I ordered.
* Seanara smiles at Shelly appreciatively. "Thanks."
<kaires> They don't mind...That's 6 more books they've sold, and I'm the one paying for it.
<JL`> That's amazing, Kaires.
<Karen> I've got to get Todd's cover to put on the one empty wall in my hallway..... The wall right by the office, no less.
<JL`> I think Unity is doing better than any of the 3 novels in it did. Well, at the moment, our agent is exploring all kinds of avenues and ideas.
<kaires> Despite what MM says. ~~grrrr~~
<jean> AFTER Unity was remaindered, it showed up at Davis Kidd, the largest bookstore in Nashville.
<Karen> JL -- when do we take down the link for Amazon gift certificates.
<JL`> So any talking you guys do on other Lists and forum type things will be to our good.
<jean> I've seen it there three times over the past six months.
<JL`> It's when an editor hears of something in one venue -- then encounters it in another -- and then yet another -- that's when they get interested.
* Karen grumbles.
* Seanara nods.
<JL`> GIFT CERTIFICATES promo is over. What should the text link go to now?
<Karen> Then I need to take it off the banner carousel.
<Midge>I don't understand.
<JL`> Jean did we sell the text link on all our pages to one of those EPIC authors?
<kaires> Todd is still interested. He said so.
<jean> First and second times it was just in the s/f section, and I turned it cover-out. Last week, though, it was centered, cover out, on a shelf with two other books!
<JL`> Kaires - REALLY TODD IS?? whee. Jean? What should our all-domain text-link go to now?
<MTZ> lol, JL, the Special saved me having to hunt for the ad page again. I've been meaning to place an ad anyway
<JL`> I wonder if Jean's lagging again.
<MTZ> btw, have you ever used Google to search for Simegen ad rates? Interesting what the first link is
<JL`> Karen - if Jean doesn't have a paid link for the text link, put it to SimeCenter for a while, then REVIEWS.
<MTZ> not so interesting is no link to the page on the first page
<Patric> JL:... Margaret's comment is telling.... We need to have a link to the ads page from the top page, near the top.
<JL`> Patric - that's your real estate. See where you can fit it.
* Patric grins. Yes Margaret...
<JL`> Or we could run the text link to it for a while -- but that's not permanent.
<MTZ> And no link at Google on the first page the search brings up, just the horror link
<jean> Was looking for Patric's email.
<Karen> Remind me to do that, change the text link. I've got chats to clean up first.
<Patric> MY real estate!!??? Since when?
<JL`> Jean - so where should the text link go? Did we sell it?
<JL`> Patric - you're in charge of page design.
<MTZ> Wait a moment, text link on all pages? that isn't the special I was thinking of. didn't see that one
<JL`> The layout of the top page, and what goes at the top is your decision.
<Patric> LOL. Design, not content!! But Ok. I will make it part of the DESIGN...
<jean> What text link are we discussing? What and where is our all-domain text-link?
<JL`> I wasn't following the discussion of the ad special, MTZ. I don't know if they sold the text link on our entry-pages.
<MTZ> It should be Patric
<Patric> And this chat is LOGGED, so I am gonna hold you to that, Jacqueline...
<jean> The special is for text ads in our newsletters.
<MTZ> No, it was a year in the newsletters, text ad, change every three months
<JL`> You won't have to hold hard, Patric.
<Patric> Margaret.. What should be? I have never controlled content. Just the shape of what is presented.
<JL`> Oh, OK - but we can sell the all-entry-page text link.
<jean> Top page?
<MTZ> a link to the ad rates page, it is HARD to find
<Patric> Ok Margaret. Gotcha...
<JL`> Meanwhile, we run that all-entry-page text link to whatever newest feature is interesting.
<Karen> Top page link goes to all the global pages.
<JL`> Karen means it appears ON all global pages.
<Karen> I've got to change the one from Amazon Gift certificates...NOW.
<Patric> FYI: "all-entry-page link is actually called the "Featured Link".
<JL`> The "global" pages are the pages we advertise, have on lots of webrings, and so on -- pages that come up at the top on search engines. Yeah, I knew we had a name for it.
<jean> Okay--that's at the top of, currently going to Amazon gift certificates.
<JL`> Thank you Patric - featured link.
<JL`> Jean - right and we're discussing what to put it to next. If you sold it, that settled it.
<Patric> Someone find me the actual link to click to please...
<Karen> I'm ready to change it NOW.... what do you want in its place?
<JL`> But if you didn't, we need to think where to put it to now.
<jean> So far as I know, we have never sold that link to any business or individual.
<JL`> Looking Patric. No we haven't yet sold it, but we could.
<Shelly> I'm going to have to run. Thank you everyone!
<Karen> Do you want Simecenter up there for the moment, JL, Jean.
<Patric> Ohy.. Be advised...
<jean> Bye Shelly.
<Karen> Take care, Shelly.
<Seanara> Bye, Shelly
<Midge>Bye Shelly, nice to meet you.
<Shelly> Night!
<JL`> That's the page she was looking for, Patric. Bye Shelly.
<Patric> I do all my work on the server in telnet. and over this stupid satellite, it is actually SLOWER than dial-up. Have to find a workaround for that...
<Patric> Bye Shelly
<Shelly> Nice meeting you too, Midge! Look forward to chatting in the coming year.
<JL`> Exchange email addresses.
<Karen> Well, I can change the featured link this minute if you tell me what you want there.
<Shelly> Now?
<JL`> Yeah, now.
<JL`> Jean?
<Karen> I'll delete the addresses from the published log.
<Shelly> I'll be working on verbiage for volunteers now.
<jean> We can change the text to "Advertise on package to suit your needs and budget," linking to pricing.html
<JL`> Oh, Karen will erase any email addresses when she posts anything postable out of this.
<Karen> I intend to, JL.
<JL`> Jean - that would be good!
<Karen> Now is the URL you just gave me what you want.
<JL`> But it's not a permanent solution.
<Midge>Got you, Shelly.
<Shelly> No prob. Got yours as well. Night!
<MTZ> I don't see featured link there
<Karen> I'll change it immediately.
<jean> There's a spacing problem--it's squeezed between the banner ad and the domain divisions.
<JL`> No, apparently Jean hasn't priced the featured link.
<JL`> MTZ meant on the pricing.html page - we don't OFFER the featured link. We ought to.
<Patric> Its always been there.. But I can change the spacing a bit...
<jean> No, I haven't priced it. No one has ever asked for it before.
<kaires> Karen - You don't have to delete the eddresses. They can be coded so someone READING the page can get them, but robots can't.
<Karen> Changing the link right now. I'd rather delete the addresses, Kaires.....
<kaires> If you look at the con report pages, you'll see all sorts of COPYABLE but not spammable email addresses
<MTZ> and update the paypal links (plural) while you're at it
<jean> I don't know if a customer would want that link, because it sort of blends in with the other hotlinks, and is overshadowed by the banner ad.
<Seanara> And you can always write an email address as "so-and-so at simegen dot com"
<Karen> I just changed the featured link.
<kaires> Yeh, but that can't be copied and pasted. These can.
<JL`> Well, we'll never know if anyone wants it unless we offer it.
<jean> To be effective, a text link in that position has to be very short.
* Seanara shakes her head ruefully.
<jean> Most of our customers want two or three lines of text to describe their books.
<kaires> So, if the addresses would be useful in the future, I'll code them so they can't be stolen.
<Seanara> Yes, I suppose people are lazy and don't want to take that extra step...
<MTZ> And a url
<Midge>Have you considered sidebar links a la Google?
<JL`> Yes, that's on Patric's to-do list -- we'll be getting a right-side column one day.
<Midge>JL, great!
<Karen> These addresses aren't that useful.... so they can be omitted.
<kaires> BTW, I've looked around the SimeCenter pages in the archive, and "Science is Magic Spelled Backwards" isn't there.
<jean> Sidebar links are good for the kind of text ad our customers want.
<Patric> Not if this damnable telnet is always as slow as it is right now.. Grrr.....
<kaires> I have a copy on my computer. JL, should I put the RTF copy up, so people who heard about it here can get it?:
<Karen> We'll have to find SCIENCE IS MAGIC and post it somewhere. Bet I have it scanned someplace.
<JL`> Well, I think we should price our Featured Link, and see if anyone wants it.
<Karen> You better give it a valuable price, as it is domain wide.
<jean> Anyway, if you want me to add the "Featured link" to the pricing page, I will, but not many books can be described in one short line.
<JL`> No, no posting of SPELLED BACKWARDS -- it's included in the anthology deal and I don't want to wreck that. No, but a homepage can be.
<Lexie13> A year ago, while I was in Toronto, I tried to order a Unity Trilogy through Bakka, Toronto's oldest SF specialty store, through a staffer who's been there at least ten years... as soon as she heard MM was the publisher, she groaned and wiped the order from the screen, saying, "Well, it's no use trying to get anything in from THEM"...I hope your next publisher is better at getting the books to readers who are screaming for them.
<kaires> Oh, well. Consider it shredded!!!
<Midge>Jean, use 125x125 banners.
<MTZ> Run a contest, sort of, to test it. all ad purchases entered in a drawing to get the Featured link for one month
<jean> Something in the line of text has to tell the visitor why s/he wants to see that ho9mepage.
<JL`> Lexie - thanks for the MM anecdote. What's interesting is that at the time, MM was being distributed in Canada by Diamond. One thing you might consider carefully -- when books don't sell, the author is blamed because obviously the CONTENT of the story was all wrong.
<jean> Yes, we have been planning to offer different sized banners, too. But the position we are discussing is a text ad right under a banner.
<kaires> Well, I'd better go. Jennifer called and wants me back at her finish the last of the champagne, and help her clean up.
<Midge>Ah so.
<JL`> OK, Kaires - I'm about to go, too.
<kaires> Good talking to everyone. Happy Years Turning!
<JL`> Jean - we should price that featured link.
<MTZ> text ad under banner? wouldn't appeal to me as a way to spend my ad budget...
<Seanara> Take care then, Kaires
<Karen> When you and Jean go, so will I.
<Midge>Bye, Kaires.
<JL`> Right - but someone with the right message might want it. We sold some stuff off it and drew hits to pages. So it is noticed.
<Karen> I've got to remove the Amazon banner.... since its no longer valid.
<MTZ> And having it listed with a price would make a difference
<JL`> Karen - yes, the gift certificate banner goes down now, too.
<Lexie13> JL, did you ever check out that link I sent you for Windstorm Creative?
<jean> Karen, please put the link to the pricing page, as above, for the time being.
<JL`> Patric - thank you for helping get that gift certificate promo up.
<Karen> Already done, Jean. Check the main page..... I changed the text link.
<jean> Refreshing.
<MTZ> Yes, that sounds good, jean. make the pricing page easy to find!!!
<JL`> Karen it's not processing correctly. TRY AGAIN.
<Karen> It's correct.
<Patric> No worries, JL.
<JL`> YoYo award for 2007 coming up.
<Karen> I checked in Netscape and IE
<jean> Okay--good. Thank you, Karen.
<Karen> Welcome.
<JL`> Oh, I think that's Patric's new section that isn't loading. Sorry.
<jean> I clicked on it and it took me to the pricing page.
<Karen> That's what you wanted, wasn't it, Jean?
<Patric> LOL. Told you this was slow...
<JL`> Yes, the link works. Yes, I know Patric you're doing a work in progress still.
<jean> Yes, it works fine.
<Patric> Look now Jacqueline....
<JL`> Looking Know what? Take my QUOTE out of that top and it'll look better.
<Karen> Patric, I see the new box.
<jean> Is it reasonable to charge the same for the featured link that's on all our top pages as for a text ad in all our newsletters?
<JL`> It's been up long enough I think.
<Karen> I wouldn't remove your quote, JL. It tells what the domain is all about.
<JL`> Jean - probably something about the same -- but as you point out it is short and not conspicuous.
<Patric> No, I wont take the quote out. I happen to like it. Like it better if the dang quotes changed once in a while like they are supposed to, but hey.
<JL`> So it might even be a little less.
* Karen agrees with Patric
<JL`> Yeah, a quote carousel would be neat-o!
<Patric> Eventually the link can run on the side bar (right side) so for now its fine.
<jean> I'll have to write up instructions for it--will get something about it onto the pricing page in the next couple of days.
<MTZ> hmm, text ad in newsletters is multi-lines but on page is seen every time someone goes there. sounds fair
<Patric> That's why we built it in the first place! Until the carousel p0art was done, SOMEONE was gonna change the chunks manually.... :)
<Karen> Changing the text link seems to be my job, Jean.....
<JL`> If we had a "screen shot" of the top page, you could put an ARROW so people would know what link it is, then a short list of SOME pages it appears on.
<MTZ> So it is a link, not just text
<Patric> And Jean, we can move the Featured link into the Main section of the page.... Then you wouldn't need to point to it. It would be obvious.
<JL`> Yeah, a text-link.
<Karen> It is a link......
<JL`> You click the words.
<jean> Most people know that if it's blue and underlined, you can click on it.
<MTZ> that is more worthwhile (hey, gotta pay attention to the budget!)
<Patric> But. It may be necessary to mark it as an ad.. Seems like I've seen that elsewhere...
<MTZ> And you need to say how many characters allowed
<jean> Call it "Featured Ad" then.
<JL`> Featured Text Ad. No images.
<Patric> Gah.. I either have to run dialup on one machine, or figure out a new way to update these pages...
<jean> We do mark ads as ads in the newsletters.
<Karen> One brief line of text, is what you say they can use for feature link.
<JL`> We CAN also sell banner carousel space. I mean as part of a package.
<Karen> We do sell ads in the banner carousels.
<MTZ> Featured ad instead of featured link
<jean> We ARE selling banner carousel space.
<JL`> Patric -- how about if the text link and the ad carousel together? One day?
<Patric> Um.. The featured link was originally intended to point to other places on the domain. If we are gonna sell it, we will need to change the name.
<Karen> Featured link often went sell the books, etc.
<JL`> Well, I'm assuming once in a blue moon some writer will have a book to promote they want to get wide coverage for.
<Patric> JL.. It would have to be daisy chained, and it would have to allow for when a link doesn't exist when the carousel does. Or are you talking about them each running (rotating) independently?
<MTZ> Or EPPIE finalists! I can see doing it for that
<JL`> But the idea of the featured link is that it's STATIONARY and the banner above it changes.
<Patric> JL: Yes. Stationary. That was the original idea.
<JL`> Patric - concept was that the text under the banner would be coupled to the banner -- in other words, you buy banner-space PLUS the text link below it to drive your message through.
<Karen> Could sell featured link monthly.....
<Patric> No reason it cant be changed of course, but don't forget the right side bar will open up other real estate...
<jean> Ah--how about specifying that the featured link goes to a web page? Then it really remains a featured link.
<JL`> Jean - that would work!!
<Patric> Yes, I saw that in this CURRENT round of decisions....
<JL`> We could do that Jean right now -- and spin more ideas with time.
<Patric> JL. Yes it would work, but I would stress that it not be offered until we automate the creation of that page. Either by submission, or by direct editing when someone wants one of those pages... Otherwise, we fall back into the problem of the original reviews site...
<JL`> Patric - yeah, OK, just brainstorming.
<Patric> And its a good brainstorm.
<jean> I didn't mean one of our pages--I meant that it would connect with the customer's page, wherever it is.
<JL`> But Jean if you go in to edit the pricing.html page again - add the featured link and a price. See what happens.
<Patric> What if we have a featured link (from the domain) AND a featured ad for sale to elsewhere...
<Karen> But if it goes to a customer's page, we lose people visiting the domain, who may not come back.
<JL`> Yes, the featured link sale would go to the customer's detail page about whatever they wanted to advertise. Of COURSE we'd be choosy about what is advertised like that.
<Patric> Karen, but that's Ok, because then we'd have exit clicks that we can use to demonstrate if its useful or not.
<JL`> Karen -- if a customer PAYS to bleed our traffic, that monetizes the traffic which is the point.
* Karen nods.
<jean> All our sold ads lead people away from except the few where the author's site is on
<JL`> BTW I should report that the webrings we're on bring us traffic that doesn't leave by the same or adjacent webrings.
<MTZ> Whoever did the changing starred cross did a wonderful job
<JL`> So they're worth the effort.
<Karen> Patric designed that.
<jean> One thing--we only have one featured link, so we have to have a maximum time on it.
<Patric> MTZ: grin. I was gonna ask if anyone still saw that thing...
<MTZ> it is fascinating!
<JL`> Why do you think we yell PATRIC every time an award is mentioned? He's also our Art Director.
<Lexie13> Beautiful piece of work, Patric
<jean> What say we sell the featured link by the month, three months maximum?
<JL`> Yes, Jean -- we've run links for months, but say maximum 2 months.
<Midge>Patric, have you heard of "popunders"? Send to the customer site, with a pop-up window or a re-direct to bring them back when they click off.
<Patric> Thanks.... But ironically, I can't see it any more... my version of the flash player doesn't show it any more... :)
<jean> Two months, then.
<JL`> 3 months might step on our toes.
<jean> Okay--making notes now.
<MTZ> oh, no, Midge! pop-unders are a pain
<JL`> Patric - ohhh - my browser shows it.
<Patric> Yes. I've heard of popunders. I wont do them because its too easy for things like that to be abused. Because they are UNDER, people who use MSIE don't always know they are there, and I have known folks to max resources because there are so many unders in the system tray.
<JL`> pop-unders are another thing we don't lead our customers to with links -- pages that use them are an abomination.
<Midge>MTZ, too true. But an automatic backtrack would work.
<Sosu_Su> As someone who has advertised on S~G, I found it difficult to get my banner set up properly. Karen helped me with the sizing. I think that if you were very clear on the banner specs, they would sell better.
<Patric> Sorry midge. I appreciate the suggestion, but I agree with JL. I hate those things...
<Patric> Sue. One of the problems is that the current design doesn't ALLOW for odd sized banners... Thats something we learned about after the fact and have yet to correct.
<JL`> We use the absolute standard banner size. 468 X 60 -- Amazon serves them, Yahoo now uses a bigger one, but this is still standard everywhere.
<Karen> I think we have the specs posted now, somewhere, Su.
<JL`> And yes, of course we'll eventually have the upgrade that allows different kinds of banners.
<Sosu_Su> I understand. I used a standard-sized banner, and it squished when the carousel displayed it. It was frustrating at first.
<MTZ> The banner specs are on the price page......or were
<Sosu_Su> Okay. My bad, then.
<JL`> Well, technology does advance rapidly here.
<Patric> And, unlike the early days, we now have the capability to RESIZE banners to the correct size.... There are many possibilities there.
<JL`> I do expect banner stuff to change -- look -- Patric is saying his display doesn't show his own artwork as it did. And here comes MS's new operating system. So the next few years will be INTERESTING TIMES. Look folks, it's 20 minutes past quitting time.
<MTZ> lol
<JL`> It's after 8pm where Karen is!
<MTZ> JL, do try to talk to Eric Flint at the con in San Diego
<JL`> Let's pack it in for this year -- and meet again next year.
<Patric> Yes it will... This next year alone will be interesting, and on that note, I have to boogie. Thanks to all for coming!
<MTZ> wish I could be there.
<JL`> And hey, if there's a big deal in the middle of the year, we might just hold a chat for that.
<Karen> Actually It's 7:30 p.m.
<Lexie13> next year Steve will BELIEVE me when I say he should wake me
<JL`> Eric Flint - email me about that and I'll put it in my calendar.
<Patric> Yes. Talk to Eric and mention how much money I've spend after being suckered into the free library.. LOL...
<MTZ> Okay
<JL`> Oh, that's right, I'm on Mountain time now.
<Seanara> Take care and be well, everyone, and Happy Year's Turning.
<Midge>Bye all.
<jean> Happy Year's Turning to all! Bye.
<Karen> Happy New Year. I've got to do banner carousel work now.
<MTZ> bye for now
<JL`> BYE!!!
<Lexie13> Happy New Year
<Patric> Bye Bye Everyone!!
<Karen> Bye
<Seanara> Bye, all.

Session Close: Mon Jan 01 19:23:23 2007 EST
Logs edited by Karen MacLeod

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