Sime~Gen, Inc. Annual Meeting - 2001

This is a record of the formal meeting of Sime~Gen participants for purpose of voting the Awards due for tasks accomplished during 2000, and for awarding Preferred, non-voting shares of stock in Sime~Gen Inc.

Below is the log of the business chatroom.  Discussion was in a separate room. 

The meeting was called to order by Jacqueline Lichtenberg <JL> 
& <Jean> = Jean Lorrah

    - compiled by Karen

MargaretTZ -- Margaret Carr
JL -- Jacqueline Lichtenberg
Jean -- Jean Lorrah
CarolC -- Carol Castellanos
dejla -- Deborah J. Laymon
AOlson -- Ann Marie Olson
ChandraMH -- Chandra Morgan Henley
Betsy -- Elizabeth Westphal
CaptButton -- Captain Button
    (only name given)

Patric -- Patric Michael
N'omi -- N'omi Rose
Broomstick -- Broomstick
    (only name given)
Kaas -- Kaas Baichtal
ECJB -- Eric Berlin
MaryLou -- Mary Lou Mendum
Marge -- Marge Robbins

(Some people ask us not to publish their names)

<MargareTZ> I nominate Jean for the Digen Award for suggesting the Good Deeds program
<JL> I second that nomination!
<MargareTZ> I nominate Don Jaramillo for the Digen Awards for suggesting the Paypal use
<JL> and call the meeting to order.
<Jean> I nominate Lois Wickstrom for taking over the Good Deeds program, organizing it, and finding donors to keep going.
<JL> I second Don Jaramillo for suggesting the Paypal collection for Karen.
<JL> I second Lois Wickstrom for the Digen for GOOD DEEDS program -- and all that WORK putting the website together and advertising it.
<JL> Are there any other nominations?
<CarolC> What are we nominating for? 
* Karen shouldn't vote on this one, as I am supposed to benefit from it...but I would vote in favor of the nominees.
<MaryLou> How about Yon Klempner, for donating the server that hosts the List Archives Search Engine?  That would be a Tigue, wouldn't it?
<JL> Karen is allowed to vote because she's not nominated for the Digen (this time). 
* Karen is laughing.
<JL> Yes, and we're doing the Digen now.  Let's keep this log clean.
<Jean> The Digen Award for basically good deeds kinds of things.
<CarolC> Patric
<Karen> Ok, I'll nominate Patric for anything above and beyond that ends up on
<Seanara> Second for Patric.
<ChandraMH> I'll nominate Patric for putting up with me.  ;)
<JL> OK, we have Don Jaramillo, Jean, Lois Wickstrom and Patric for the Digen Award. 
<JL> Are thre any other people who should be considered for the Digen?
<MargareTZ> move to close nominations for Digen Award
<JL> Anyone second to close the nominations for the Digen?
<Jean> Second
<JL> In favor?
<MargareTZ> Aye
<CarolC> Aye
<Jean> Of closing?  Aye
<Seanara> Aye
<dejla> Aye
<AOlson> Aye
<Betsy> Aye
<AOlson> I move we award all of them a Digen
<JL> Do I hear a second of that motion?
<dejla> Second
<Karen> I second Ann's vote.
<JL> In favor?
<Betsy> Aye
<MargareTZ> aye
<CarolC> Aye
<dejla> aye
<Seanara> aye
<ChandraMH> (I don't feel qualified to vote; I haven't been here long enough to know everyone.)
<Karen> Those nominees you have worked with, Chandra.
<Patric> Ann and I think alike in this case... :)
<JL> Chandra has had her head in her electrons redesigning the school during December.  She only came on board at Darkover.
<ChandraMH> (I've got a pretty good redesign going but so far it's still 95% in my head.)
<JL> OK, Don Jaramillo, Lois Wickstrom, Jean Lorrah, and Patric Michael are the winners of the Digen award.
<N`omi> I vote Aye!
<JL> Next award nominations
<Jean> Patric for the Tech-ton
<Jean> Patric
<Jean> Can't type today--all week, actually.
<CarolC> Tech-ton is definitely Patric
<MargareTZ> nominate Jenn and Dancer
<Karen> I'll second the Jenn and Dancer nominations
<N`omi> I second Patric
<Betsy> I nominate Chandra for the Tech-ton Award for tackling the rdo project
<Patric> I second Chandra..
<JL> We have 4 nominees for the Tech-ton Award -- Patric, Jenn, Dancer, and Chandra.  Are there any further nominations?
<Jean> Call end to nominations.
<JL> All in favor of awarding all the 4 nominees the Tech-Ton award?
<N`omi> AYE!
<MargareTZ> second end to nominations
<MargareTZ> aye
<CarolC>  Aye
<Betsy> Aye
<dejla> Aye
<JL> In favor of ending nominations?
<ECJB> Aye!^nth
<MargareTZ> aye
<N`omi> AYE to ending
<N`omi> AYE to awarding all 4
<JL> Nominations for the Tech-ton are closed.
<CarolC> Aye
<AOlson> Aye
<JL> All in favor of awarding all 4 nominees the Tech-ton say Aye.
<MargareTZ> aye
<Karen> Aye
<N`omi> AYE
<Seanara> aye
<Betsy> Aye
<Jean> aye
<AOlson> Aye
<JL> The ayes have it and the Tech-ton is awarded.
<JL> Next is the Arensti award.
<JL> If we haven't ever done an Arensti before -- then this would be the first.  Otherwise, it's whatever number it should be.
<Jean> Claire for the Arensti
<JL> Any nominations for COMMERCIAL ARTISTIC MERIT -- remember the Arensti is for commercial art not fine art.
<JL> Claire Gadzikowski for the Arensti.
<JL> any further nominations?
<Karen> Seconded.
<MargareTZ> second
<N`omi> I move we end the nominations
<AOlson> I would like to Nominate Deborah for her Powerpoint  presentation at worldcon
<N`omi> oops, I recind that move
<N`omi> I second the vote for Deborah
<JL> Claire Gadzikowski and Deborah June Laymon are nominated for the Arensti.  Any further nominations?
<N`omi> I move we end the nominations
<MargareTZ> second end
<JL> second?
<JL> thank you
<JL> all in favor of closing the nominations for the Arensti?
<MargareTZ> aye
<Jean> aye
<N`omi> I move that Both Nominees be awarded the Arensti Award
<AOlson> Aye
<N`omi> AYE
<Patric> Aye
<Karen> I vote both receive the award
<Betsy> Aye
<Jean> second
<N`omi> AYE
<MaryLou> aye
<JL> Moved and seconded to award both nominees the Arensti.  all in favor?
<N`omi> AYE
<MargareTZ> aye
<Jean> aye
<Karen> Aye
<Seanara> aye
<AOlson> Aye
<CarolC>  aye
<Patric> aye
<JL> thank you -- the Arensti has been awarded to both Claire and Deb Laymon.
<Patric> I nominate D. Yon Klempner for the Teague re-cycle award.
<Karen> Seconded
<AOlson> I second that nomination!
<MaryLou> I'll second that.
<JL> Motion to close nomination?
<AOlson> I second that, as I missed the first
<dejla> motioned
<JL> All in favor?
<N`omi> second
<AOlson> Aye!
<Patric> Aye
<N`omi> aye
<Betsy> Aye
<Karen> Aye
<dejla> aye
<MaryLou> Aye
<Broomstickck> aye
<MargareTZ> aye
<Seanara> aye
<dejla> aye
<Kaas> aye
<Jean> aye
<JL> The ayes have it.  D.Yon Klempner has won the Tigue Award.
<MargareTZ> okay, I nominate N`omi for all the work she put into the Buffy Contest, even though the response was poor
<AOlson> I second Margaret's nomination
<JL> N'omi has been nominated and seconded for the Silver Yo-Yo award for publicizing the Buffy Parody Writing contest.  All in favor?
<Patric> Aye
<AOlson> Aye
<MargareTZ> aye
<Karen> aye
<Betsy> Aye
<dejla> aye
<JL> The ayes have it and N'omi has been awarded the Silver Yo-Yo.
<AOlson> I move to close the awards
* dejla applauds
<MargareTZ> second
<JL> Moved and seconded to close the awards for this year.  All in favor?
<Jean> aye
<AOlson> Aye
<dejla> aye
<Patric> Aye!
<Karen> aye
<Betsy> Aye
<Seanara> aye
<MargareTZ> aye
<JL> OK, next comes the reports on the corporation's progress for the year. 
<N`omi> aye
<JL> Jean do you want to take over for this.
<Jean> OK--let me think.
<Jean> We have had a really good year, primarily thanks to all the great volunteers who have helped us.
<Jean> Each year we award stock in our corporation to people who have completed projects for us, and who have kept things running behind the scenes.
<Jean> The stock goes to accomplishments--so people who have just begun volunteering for us have probably not completed any projects yet.  But there is always next year.
<Jean> Gatemasters receive stock.  People who contribute something special, like the PowerPoint presentation, that just comes out of the blue, as well as people who contribute constantly from day to day.
<Jean> Book reviewers do NOT receive stock for book reviewing; they receive free books.  If you see the name of a book reviewer on the list, the award of stock is for something else.
<Jean> So these awards are by way of a thank you to the people who have helped us grow in the year 2000--to let them share in our growth.
<Jean> Right now our stock is not worth much in monetary terms, but it is a stake in our future, and we all hope that it will be worth more someday.
<Jean> Finally, this is preferred stock.  That is, non-voting stock.  The reason?  This is a closely-held corporation between Jacqueline and me, OUR brainchild.  If we gave voting stock at the rate we are going, by next year we would be outvoted.
<Jean> However, every piece of stock we give out has the same monetary VALUE as every piece we hold.  We ARE giving value to those who are helping us to grow.
<Jean> So, here are the awards for the year 2000:
<Jean> Bruce Gray, 1 share
<Jean> Carol Castellanos, 1 share
<Jean> Darlene Kendall, 1 share
<Jean> Deb Laymon, 1 share
<Jean> Doreen Dabinett, 1 share
* dejla says thank you very much...
<Jean> Jenn and Dancer Vesperman, 2 shares (1 each)
<CarolC> Carol's giving her thanks.
<Jean> Karen Litman MacLeod, 1 share
<Jean> Laurraine Tutihasi, 1 share
<Jean> Lois Wickstrom, 1 share
<Jean> Margaret L. Carter, 1 share
<Jean> Marge Robbins, 1 share
* Karen thanks Jean and Jacqueline. However, please omit the "Litman"
<Jean> N'omi Rose, 1 share
* N`omi blinks
* JL no Litman on the corp books anywhere that I know of. ~~innocent~~
<Jean> And finally, one person who has done SO many things this past year--
<Jean> Patric Michael, 4 shares
<Jean> Ronnie Bob Whitaker, 2 shares
<N`omi> cheers
<Jean> Shari Brennan, 1 share
* dejla applauds and whistles
<Jean> Wendy Fisher, 1 share
<Jean> Jacqueline, did I leave anyone out?
<JL> Looks right to me.
<Jean> Is there any other business?
<Jean> If not, I call for adjournment of the business portion of this meeting.
<Patric> I second..
<JL> all in favor?
<CarolC> Aye
<MargareTZ> aye
<dejla> aye
<Seanara> aye
<AOlson> Aye
<Betsy> Aye!
<Broomstick> aye
<MaryLou> Aye
<Karen> aye
<Patric> aye!
<N`omi> aye
<JL> The meeting is adjourned at 4:23 EST USA.
<N`omi> I move we start the party portion of this gathering?
< Broomstick> aye - party!
<JL> The buffet is spread in #sgtalk -- Simes to the East end of the groaning table; Gens to the West End -- and the wet-bar open to all.  Free flowing Porstan, plenty of the best wines, shiltpron music and DANCING (mixed, too) -- not to mention CHOCOLATE!!! 
<Seanara> Hey, where's the espresso, the cappucino, the latte?
<JL> North table!
<JL> We always call the quarters you know.
<Betsy> Is that so the Simes don't have to deal with coffee smells?
< Broomstick sti1> Where's the tea?
<JL> You got it. ~~~smug nager~~ Good ventillation over there you see.
<Karen> Find me the south quarter, I usually associate well with Fire, being a Sag.
<JL> West end for trin and other fine mixtures.
<Betsy> Ah, the building design having been borrowed from Russia?
<AOlson> Hey, Some Simes like coffee ... at least one who know what's exciting in life
<Betsy> And I am sure the fireplace is in the south.
<JL> Naturally, being as how I have Russian ancestry.
* N`omi sighs as she passes the strwberries
<Broomstick> You too?
<JL> STRAWBERRIES!!!  Who brought those in here!!!
<Betsy> Just keep 'em at the Gen end of the table and it'll be OK
* N`omi pciks chcolate instead
<MargareTZ> wrong section, N`omi
* MaryLou grins weakly.
<Karen> ~~soothing~~  JL, some of us can have strawberries.
* Seanara steps up to the fireplace and makes a toast to Sime~Gen, drains her espresso cup and throws it into the fireplace with a crash... oops, that's Spider Robinson's universe!
<MaryLou> Hey, there was this nice little field trial I found...
<N`omi> I did! I thought the buffet was one you got your food at and then went to the table to sit down?
* Karen grins, and also throws her tea glass into the fireplace. Been visiting that Universe, too.
<dejla> We tried a new recipe for the party last night... chocolate cakes with molten chocolate center... worked on the first try!
<Karen> Not nice to tell a choco-holic, unless you have a recipe to share.
<AOlson> If you aren't carefull you are going to end up with a battle servant wandering into the mix ... they get high off theobromine in a big way
<N`omi> what fun!
<JL> Tables out on the patio -- nice, warm, insulating wall surrounding it -- lovely fountain with colored lights.
<JL> Very posh meeting hall we keep here.
<dejla> This month's Bon Appetit. I'll try to find the recipe again and send it along...
* N`omi takes her plate and heads away from those berries
<Betsy> That sounds yummy.  Recipe?
<N`omi> wb Margaret!
<JL> We need a recipe page or section for writers.
<JL> That would go in the SCHOOL OF BUSINESS.
<MargaretTZ> thanks, N`omi
<Karen> I've a bunch of decent recipes I can share.  Seanara has survived eating lots of them.  <grin>
<AOlson> I have bought more than a few cookbooks for my writing ... and am always looking for more
<dejla> You serve it with chocolate mint sauce. And it really requires bittersweet chocolate, which isn't exactly semisweet...
<CarolC> I have to go now.  have a great night all. 
<MaryLou> Nooo!  Not more recipes!  I just got done publishing a family cookbook, with over 160 of the darned things!!
<dejla> Devra Langsam's Poison Pen Press still sells many unusual and medieval cookbooks...
<JL> Great -- we NEED stuff like that.  Many young writers don't know where to get the time to write.  you get loads of it by streamlining your cooking routines.
<N`omi> but we cannot post already copyrighted recipes, right?
<Karen> Guess my 6 cartons of cookbooks are too many <grin>
<AOlson> Oooh, I'll have to go look that up
* N`omi collects recipe books
<JL> Correct - not from cookbooks.  Ones you make up.
<JL> Most people put the books away after a few years and wing-it.
<Betsy> What happens if you started with a published recipe and then modified the heck out of it?
<dejla> BTW, if anyone is interested in the WWI era, there's a series of girls' books, the Ethel Morton series, from that period
<Karen> some of the best recipes come from books.
<MargaretTZ> look through your cookbooks and see if there are any you've made a lot of changes to
<N`omi> i read cookbooks to relax
<AOlson> Although most early cooking is not at all copyrighted as its so old it no longer holds
<dejla> which specialize in explaining how to do such things as make a concrete birdbath
<JL> And someone had to make up those recipes -- usually for the author to collect or perfect.
<AOlson> Have you looked at the L'Arousse Gastronomic N'omi?
<dejla> and how to make certain types of cookies or hold flowers for long periods...
<JL> bye Carol
<MargaretTZ> or ruin
<N`omi> no, I haven't, Ann? what is the url, please?
<AOlson> What gets me with really old recipies, is what was done with the parts of the animal we don't use now ... or things like dumping a rooster into a barrel of ale
<AOlson> It is a French, translated, encyclopedia of food
<dejla> Or preserving an excess of eggs by immersing them in isinglass... that was in my mom's first cookbook.
<N`omi> I have a great old book.. that doesn't tell me amounts
<AOlson> The really old cookbooks don't.
<N`omi>  isinglass?
<JL> Yes, I was trained in the handful-pinch measurement school.  enough but not too much is how I cook.
<AOlson> I have a book of translated 18-19th century Russian recipes and most of the quantities were added much later
<Betsy> I learned the measurement form of cooking first and then rediscovered the handful-pinch method
<dejla> One of my grandmother's recipes began 'first you catch your rabbit'...
<N`omi> that was how my grandmother taught me to cook.. but now that I cannot taste.. I am having to stick to recipes again
<Karen> I rarely exact measure any more.
<N`omi> grins
<AOlson> The thing that gets me about old recipes, is how few ingredients they used except for those for the extremely wealthy ... people just didn't have that much variety in their food
<dejla> Isinglass. Or waterglass, it's also called. I don't have any idea what it is, actually, except some kind of gel-liquid.
<AOlson> IIRC its a fish byproduct ... but don't quote me on it
<MargaretTZ> silicon dioxide, I think
<N`omi> no, they did not.. which goes with the lack of variety in a poor persons life, period..
<dejla> Ah! That sounds right.
<Kaas> Main Entry: isinŠglass
<Kaas> Pronunciation: 'I-z&n-"glas, 'I-zi[ng]-
<Kaas> Function: noun
<Kaas> Etymology: probably by folk etymology from obsolete Dutch huizenblas, from Middle Dutch huusblase, from huus sturgeon + blase bladder
<Kaas> Date: 1545
<AOlson> SiO2 is glass, Margaret
<Kaas> 1 : a semitransparent whitish very pure gelatin prepared from the air bladders of fishes (as sturgeons) and used especially as a clarifying agent and in jellies and glue
<Kaas> 2 : MICA
<AOlson> Ah, thank you Kaas.
<Kaas> You can quote that one ;-)
<AOlson> The mica had been used for very wealthy people's traveling carraiges .. for windows
<dejla> Ah-ha! Thank you very much, Kaas. I'd heard the word, but never thought to look it up. Silly of me.
<Kaas> is our friend
<Seanara> They used it in wood and coal stove doors too, I think.
<N`omi> thank you Kaas
<dejla> They say you can't use the eggs for boiling or scrambling, but they're supposed to be fine for cooking.
<AOlson> One of the stories I'm writing is set on the cusp of hunter-gatherer/agriculture ... and figuring out food has been a real challenge
<MargaretTZ> very seasonal too
<dejla> I've always wondered who first figured out you could eat olives? I mean, get oil from them, that's not too hard, but they're inedible unless you put them in brine.
<AOlson> Huh, thanks Deborah ... I'm going to have to file that bit away ... but still its easier to store the eggs in the chicken
<dejla> I made up a notion once that maybe someone really hungry found some floating at the seashore and tried them out of desperation...
<Betsy> But putting things in brine is common.  Somebody did it somewhere because he planned to press the olives for lamp oil *later*
<MargaretTZ> ever tasted an olive right off the tree?
<Betsy> Oh dear, I just lost sgtalk.
<dejla> Well, Ann, the prob is that chickens don't hang on to the eggs, they lay them every day. You have twenty hens, you usually get more than twenty eggs
<N`omi> yes, I have often wondered about olives, and popcorn, and such
<dejla> and if there aren't that many of you, you might sell some, but if everyone else has eggs already, you have to do something with them other than throw them away.
<dejla> Sorry. AOlson.
<Betsy> Popcorn is easy, somebody went to roast it to eat it and it exploded, but they were hungry so they ate it anyway
<AOlson> The one I wonder about is cassava
<Betsy> Me too
<Patric> Or Artichokes?
<AOlson> The problem I'm having the with the culture set in the far north, is that the native diet is so high in meat
<dejla> Or bread, for that matter... although I understand current theory is that bread was created in order to make beer.
<N`omi> no, cuz not all corn makes popcorn.. plus popcorn has to be dried before it will pop
<JL> On a bad diet, Simes don't live long.
<AOlson> The thing is that cassava is poisonous if it isn't prepared exactly right
<Betsy> The evidence strongly suggests bread is a byproduct of brewing beer, yes
<N`omi> yes how does  a Sime maintain a good diet in a stress situation away from home?
<Betsy> Yes, and that's why I don't understand how anyone succeeded in being the first to eat cassava
<dejla> I think there's some evidence of cassava having been found soaking in rivers after storm or flood, and again, desperation came to the rescue.
<Broomstick> Yeah?  Who decided to try fugu the first time?  Now that's poisoinous!
<MargaretTZ> and acorns are another food source that require a lot of processing
<Betsy> Probably someone suicidal
<JL> Or starving
<Seanara> And what about tomatoes? They were thought to be poisonous centuries ago.
<N`omi> yes, acorns!!
<dejla> Fugu -- blowfish -- is a Northeastern delicacy, actually. There's one piece of meat on the backbone and that's what most people eat.
<Broomstick> Or fugu came from an execution gone wrong
<JL> Simes can starve but they often don't notice.
<Betsy> But acorns are only stomach-upset inducing if prepared wrong
* Patric tests...
<dejla> Acorns are a lot like cassava. Needs the soaking to remove the toxins.
<Betsy> Jacqueline, I bet most Simes wouldn't notice starving to death if they had plenty of selyn
<AOlson> Tomatos are in the nightshade family, which is why they were thought to be toxic
<Betsy> Yes, I know, as a kid I tried eating acorns.  Got sick.  Soaked them longer.  didn't get sik
<Broomstick> I wonder if there are any Simes who think they don't require food at all?
<Karen> My father used to have blowfish only as a bait fish.  They were never eaten.
<JL> Betsy -- yes, that's about right.  Need far overshadows hunger.
<Betsy> There probably are Simes that think they don't need to eat.
<dejla> However, women in Victorian times used to take belladonna on lumps of sugar to make their eyes bright.
<Broomstick> Dialate the pupils, actually
<AOlson> Which was why it was called 'beautiful lady'
<N`omi> and coke used to be in soda, and taken legally
<JL> And dilated pupils are a sign of excitement so men love it.
<dejla> And morphine in laudanum.
<AOlson> Oh heck, everything used to be legal
<Broomstick> Nowadays people just inject botulism toxin into their foreheads to get rid of/prevent wrinkles
<Betsy> And given the way humans work if selyn replete, they wouldn't notice lack of food.  likewise, when they felt hungry, they might think they needed a transfer/kill instead of food and end up dying of inanition
<N`omi> true
<Betsy> but cosmetic botox is a derivation of using it for problems that severely interfere with quality of life, like spasticity
<Broomstick> Yes, but cosmetic botox is still the same deadly poison - just in minute amounts
<AOlson> People love to do things to mess with their minds ... mood alterants, stimulants and psychedelics were all commonly used around the globe (different proportions in different places, of course)
<MargaretTZ> and strychnine was used as a heart tonic in minute doses
<Broomstick> We still mess with our minds - caffeine, for instance, and alcohol
<Betsy> And chocolate, and falling in love, and tobacco, and THC, and meditation
<AOlson> But we do tend to outlaw the ones alien to our culture, such as THC
<CptButton> note that the green parts of tomato plants *are* poisonous.
<Betsy> Doesn't seem to stop people from using THC
<dejla> ergot, of course, is used to treat migraines, and it was a fungus found on rye grain and toxic at high levels... I have had some truly weird experiences on cafergot
<CptButton> like potatoes. they are in the deadly nightshade family.
<Betsy> many people do, dejla
<AOlson> Which has caused more than a few people to run into speed bumps in my Russian stories, as the use of hashish is endemic in the renSime subculture
<Broomstick> Green potato parts are poisonous too - several deaths in WWII from eating potato shoot soup
<N`omi> as are the green parts of the potato plant!
<CptButton> oops, someone already said that. sorry.
<dejla> As are rhubarb leaves.
<Betsy> Did you guys know that you can graft a tomato onto jimson weed stock?
<AOlson> Gah! Why?
<N`omi> really??
<Betsy> Frosthardiness.  It's been done
<dejla> Well, you'd have a heck of a salad, wouldn't you?
<AOlson> Although you can graft hops onto marijuana ... and get a useful result
<Betsy> Trouble is, you grow toxic tomatoes, of varying degrees of toxicity
<Patric> Joints that bounce?
<Betsy> Oh, that I didn't know.  What do you get with that graft?
<AOlson> LOL!
* dejla mutters, can see it now, hash beer instead of hash brownies...
<N`omi> oh <sigh> it sounded good
<AOlson> You get hops flowers with trace amounts of THC
<AOlson> Exactly Deborah
<Patric> "I'm just sniffing the flowers, occifer!"...
<AOlson> Particularly as THC is soluble in alcohol
<Betsy> Oh, cool!
<Betsy> And hops is a legal crop grown in lots of places...
<AOlson> Yes, very legal
<JL> Simes respond to alcohol different than Gens do.
<Betsy> That's no surprise.  Different metabolisms, after all, and Sime brain cells don't get screwed up by lack of good stubstrates for ATP synthesis
<CptButton> Are there Sime alcoholics?
<AOlson> Not that I've ever been able to figure out exactly how ... other than far more strongly
<CptButton> and do they drink while in need?
<JL> Not usually -- no, Capt.
<JL> But I suppose you could find someone who would and that might be interesting.
<AOlson> So, any comments about how Simes respond to alcohol differently? (Or TCH, or Opiates, or caffiene or ...)
<CptButton> would caffiene feel like need?
<AOlson> I just magnified the effects of caffiene on my Simes ... up to the point where young Simes, after a single cup of coffee will be up for days and very sick afterwards ... it takes a bit for them to get used to it again
<CptButton> Another think to make life difficult for new Simes from out-t
<CptButton> does trin tea contain caffiene?
<AOlson> I was thinking it contained theophyline, like green tea to calm them down
<Betsy> Except that theophylline is a stimulant (it's chemically quite similar to caffeine and theobromine)
<JL> Trin does not contain caffiene -- at least not trin grown on the North American continent.
<CptButton> I though I took that for my asthma, and it hit me just like caffiene did.
<Betsy> It did, CptB
<AOlson> I can't tolerate theophyline at all, as it messes up my hypothalimus ... which is pretty screwy to begin with
<Betsy> Oh?  What happens?
<AOlson> My temperature regulation falls apart entirely
<Betsy> Oh.  Too hot, too cold, or poikilothermic?
<AOlson> I think the last ... vocab?
<AOlson> Can't deal with either cold or hot, my body just slides towards ambient
<Betsy> Poikilothermic.
<Kaas> Main Entry: poiŠkiŠloŠtherm
<Kaas> Pronunciation: poi-'kE-l&-"th&rm, -'ki-
<Kaas> Function: noun
<Kaas> Etymology: Greek poikilos variegated + International Scientific Vocabulary -therm -- more at PAINT
<Kaas> Date: 1920
<Kaas> : an organism (as a frog) with a variable body temperature that is usually slightly higher than the temperature of its environment : a cold-blooded organism
<Kaas> - poiŠkiŠloŠtherŠmic /"poi-k&-lO-'th&r-mik/ adjective
<Kaas> Oops
<AOlson> It was in the summer when I tried it ... I got so heatsick!
<Betsy> Do you have asthma?
<AOlson> Severe chronic
<Broomstickck> my sympathies
<AOlson> My immune system is shot ... stuck on hyper ... which is some of why I'm looking at writing professionally ... I can do it from inside a plastic bubble if I have to
<Betsy> Mine is moderate chronic
<Broomstickck> mild intermittent, here - but does flare up occasionally
<Betsy> Didn't being around horses and hay give you all kinds of trouble?
<AOlson> Yes, particularly as I'm extremely allergic t both
<AOlson> As well as cats, dust, and everything else in the known universe it seems
<Broomstickck> bummer
<AOlson> I never go anywhere without an inhaler of some kind
<Betsy> I know how that works.  I'm allergic to horses, cats, dogs, dust, grass pollen, tree pollen, mold spores
<Karen> Sympathies, Ann.  I have similar problems.
<AOlson> Which is why I'm going to be sending my mare off to live in Missouri this spring ... I can no longer stand to be around her
<Betsy> Geese, ducks, mice, rats, sheep (though not wool), you name it, if it can float in the air, I'm allergic to it.
<AOlson> Odd about the sheep and not the wool
<Betsy> That's really tough to have to say goodbye to your horse
<AOlson> Working in a biosafety set up building has been wonderful for my sinuses *grin*
<Broomstickck> Dander vs. hair for sheep vs. wool
<Betsy> I'm allergic to animal danders that are airborne.  Once the wool has been even minimally cleaned, no more dander
<AOlson> Well, its the best for her ... as then she'll be near the stallions we plan on breeding her too ... it isn't like I'm selling her
<AOlson> She's an amazing broodmare and deserves to be kept in foal
<Betsy> Since I'm allergic to so many environmental things I can't avoid (dust, mold spores, pollens, etc)
<Betsy> I don't get any sicker by having pets so I do
<AOlson> LOL!
<Betsy> Oh, what breed of horse is she?
<AOlson> Morgan
<AOlson> My allergist keeps trying to get me to get rid of the animals ... I think he's afraid I'm going to die on him
<AOlson> I tested out with an IgE of about 10,000
<Betsy> Mine too, but I lived without pets for 10 years and wasn't any healthier.  And I've told him that
<Betsy> 10K!!!
<AOlson> Yes, they did the test over to verify it
<AOlson> I should be dead
* AOlson thinks Betsy might have fainted
<AOlson> Really, I don't have basal cell carcinoma or ARC
<Betsy> Did you know somebody has come up with an injectable anti-IgE monoclonal antibody? 
<AOlson> Yes, they are a San Diego company and I've been watching them very closely
<Betsy> It isn't cheap but some folks are getting good responses with it.
<AOlson> I might look at it if my immune system goes too wonky ... but right now I'm coping and have managed to avoid steriods
<Betsy> Then I guess you're doing all right if you haven't needed chronic steroids
<AOlson> I refused when they tried to put me on them ... I get really bad 'roid rage ... no more
<AOlson> I'm also none to sane, so I suppose it doesn't help
<Betsy> I keep up with this stuff as an MD/patient, so I will let you know if I run across anything useful
<Betsy> Lots of very sane folks become not-well-wrapped on steroids
<AOlson> Thanks and I really appreciate it ... I avoid all regular medicine after having been hounded nearly to death by an HMO over it all
<AOlson> Steriods are really nasty things
<Betsy> Oh yes.  I'm fortunate that I need to be on them about 1 week per year and that I can tolerate it OK with only moderate emotional liability (of course, I'm not well wrapped at baseline, but at least I don't get worse)
<AOlson> I won't take them at all anymore ... I get very verbally abusive  ... not good
<Betsy> No, not good
<Betsy> But like I said, I follow this stuff, so I will keep you posted if anything new and wonderful appears
<AOlson> Thanks, I really do appreciate it a lot
<Karen> Such medical updates interest me, too.  Allergies and assorted other goodies.
<Betsy> No prob, that's what friends are for, Ann Marie
<Betsy> Karen, just tell me what you need to be kept informed on and I can do it. 
<Betsy> I read fast enough to soak up all kinds of info in the medical universe even in specialties unrelated to internal medicine
<AOlson> I'm just an information sink ... anything and everything is fascinating to me, it seems
<Betsy> Me too.  My friends call me "wealth of useless knowledge Westphal"
* Karen smiles. The issues on my sight, we discussed in chat. Allergies, that kind of thing. My CP and arthritis are OK as long as I continue to ride....and hopefully I'll find a riding center where I'll be moving.
<AOlson> Then you're in excellent company, I think
<N`omi> what did I miss?
<AOlson> I do hope it all works out for you Karen
<Karen> I think it may work out if the Library of Congress, and the other agency I applied to come through.
<Karen> Well, I am signed with a temp agency for when I move ( who says they can get me $25 an hour with my web skills as temp work.
<AOlson> Good oh, Karen!
<Betsy> Yes, that's about the right rate.  But the companies you go on assignment to will pay $50-75/hr to the agency
<Karen> But I have to move to the area first...they're in Baltimore.
<Karen> Doesn't matter to me Betsy, as the casinos pay here only $7.00 an hour starting salary.
<Betsy> I know.
<Karen> $25 would be amazing compared to what we get here.
<Betsy> And do you want to work at a casino?  I didn't think so
<Karen> They don't seem to want me, and its the major industry in South Jersey.
<Betsy> Yeah, I know.
<Karen> That's why the prompt to move and look for Federal jobs.
<Karen> No jobs here.
<Betsy> I hear you
* Karen smiles. "Plus any apartment here would only take one cat."
<N`omi> here here!
<Karen> Convincing this place to take more than one was interesting, but they were kind about it.
<Betsy> But you succeeded!
<Karen> I don't know how I did, but I did.
<Karen> I should be going, everyone.  Have a wonderful Year's Turning.  Cats to feed.
<Karen> Boxes to pack.
<Karen> Night, all.
N`omi: bye bye Betsy and Karen
     N`omi: d*mn.. missed them!
     N`omi: this has been so kewl, Everyone! thank you JL for doing this,
and everyone for coming!
N`omi: poor Margret
     N`omi: anyone still here?
      Kaas: Me
      ECJB: Me...sorta
     N`omi: three counted.. anyone else?
      Kaas: Button is away from his keyboard
      ECJB: I see 5 names...CptButton AFK
      ECJB: JL said she was leaving the machine on to log but isn't here.
     N`omi: ahh, okay!
     N`omi: hopefully Marget will be back
            N`omi wonders what everyones plans ore for theor shortterm and
long term goals for writing in 2001?
            ECJB wants to do some Web pages, but can't seem to get his thoughts together.
      Kaas: Well, my short term goals are to finish a new short story
called "A Happy Song" and post the 4th chapter of my novel Undertow.
      Kaas: Longer term I want to submit one of my old non S~G novels to
Tor and am trying to clean up the firt three chapters and write a synopsis.
     N`omi: excellent.. and how are you gpoing to actually implimnet this
into ypour life?
     N`omi: my goal is to get my T-Zero clumn done ealier than I have been
doing... and to start daily writing again..and to continue with my novel
"Silant Screams"..
     N`omi: I am implementing this by writing down in a special calandar
what writing I have done each day
     N`omi: and by writing first thing (after feeding self and dogs) each
am, again (a menthod that has worked in the past)
      Kaas: Mary Lou writes best in the mornings
     N`omi: me too.. way, way best!
      ECJB: Qu'est-ce que c'est..."morning"?
     N`omi: "the first 3 hours after awakening"
      ECJB: oic
     N`omi: sun;'s rising and falling does not always count
      ECJB: Ah.  I don't know why but my best hours are usually after dinner.
      Kaas: I would have to agree with Eric... er, are you Eric?
     N`omi: kewl, I know several who are! every seem to have their time!
      ECJB: Yes.  C'est moi.
     N`omi: mine used to be in last night/early morning.  2 am was prime!
      Kaas: I can write well in morning but i have to save that tiem for
programming. Then in evening I become a lot more creative (if less
disciplined) and writing is good then too
      Kaas: When I would not be able to program to save my life
N`omi: but then after the brain damage/coma.. I changed to a early am
person *sigh* I still miss the solitude of night writing
 CptButton: re
     N`omi: wb!
      ECJB: I do best with HTML coding and computer maintenance and such
after dinner, as long as I have had more than 5 hours sleep the night
      ECJB: I think the epilepsy has been my intellectual downfall.
      Kaas: Ouch! Brain damage and epilepsy!!
      Kaas: And I thought I had problems being apathetic.
      ECJB: apathetic...rhymes with epileptic.
      Kaas: Or whatever it is that I am
      ECJB: Kaas==Kaas
      Kaas: What?
            Kaas looks around in confusion
     N`omi: you have e? I have "atypical seizures"
      ECJB: Grand mal, petit mal, etc.
     N`omi: yes, I find that when in high seizure modes, I cannot write..
something gets interrupted
     N`omi: plus, the meds sometimes mess me up
      Kaas: Bummer.
      ECJB: The "==" operator in C is a test for equivalence.  Like "5==5"
returns true.
     N`omi: funny, is that I can do my htmling for the mag I work for, in
bad periods.. like it is left brain stuff!  when the creative side does not
kick in
      ECJB: I know about the medication situation.  Been there since I was
17.  (Just turned 31.)
     N`omi: ahh, yes, I am 43, and the coma was at 30, brainstem damage at
      ECJB: I'm trying to get both halves of my brain to work together,
which should help my vision.
      ECJB: Ouch.
     N`omi: been there!! my eyes finally work together, as lomg as I am not
      ECJB: Mine are starting to (with effort) for the first time in my
life.  I am legally blind at distance.  My vision *now* is 20/20 to about
     N`omi: I lost my abuikty to read/write from the coma.. then again  4
years ago with yet another "small stroke" (BS-TIA)
     N`omi: I worked for 2.5 year the last time to get my writing back!
     N`omi: excellent!!
     N`omi: no one was more shiocked than I when my writing began to really
happne again! I am still bulding back the skills i lost, though
      ECJB: Capt is back, I think.
      ECJB: "lurking"
     N`omi: hey Capt, what are you doing?
     N`omi: I take it writing has become inprtant for you as well
CptButton: lurking and playing civ2, half- watching La Femme Nikita
      Kaas: lol
     N`omi: LOL well start a conversation!
            ECJB has a headache.
     N`omi: I'll bet.. we have been at this awhile
      Kaas: Game tonight too
      ECJB: Where?  May I watch?
      Kaas: Well we usually game on the Pens server but since all that is
down for a week we're doing it here on it's our first alternate.
      Kaas: You can watch, it'll be in #naros in about 3 hours.
     N`omi: well, I need to get to bed..nice to meet you all, and great
talking to you! thansk you for being a prt of this!
      Kaas: Nice talking to you N`omi!
      ECJB: Night, N'omi...
 CptButton: Jean's new story reminded me of my musings on whenever it was
that the Tecton and Nivet put the hammer down on Gulf territory's tolerance
of direct gen transfer.
     N`omi: hugs all arund!  see ya next time!
 CptButton: Which I claim has an economic aspect to it also.
 CptButton: bye
      Kaas: The game usually runs on Mon and Thurs at 8pm Central and Sat
and Sun at 9AM central. People are always welcome to watch.
            N`omi waves once more at the logging JL!! thanks for having
this chat!
     N`omi: kewl!!
      ECJB: I think I'm "outta here" too.
     N`omi: bye bye
Kaas: Bye bye... maybe will see you later.
      ECJB: See ya.
      ECJB: K.
      Kaas: I would have to agree.
      Kaas: It's not very clearly stated when exactly the whole problem
came to a head after Unity.
 CptButton: Gulf is in much better shape at Unity, and so Gulf investors
will invest in Nivet.
 CptButton: A couple of decades later, you get resentment of all the
profits going to Gulf.
 CptButton: The Zhag and toyo stuff I've seen suggest is it several decades
at least
      Kaas: I should think Gulf would be in a better position to trade with
Gen Territory too, although I can't put a finger on why I feel that way.
 CptButton: I wonder if the direct transfer surpression comes when the
secret pens are closed, or if those are two different crises
Kaas: IIRC the Secret Pens thing was supposed to happen around Year 20?
 CptButton: that when they were shut down?
      Kaas: If I remember right.
      Kaas: 20-24
 CptButton: I know bits and pieces about that have been mentioned, but
don't recall details
      Kaas: I wish the whole post-Unity thing was a little more well
defined. I have had a heck of a time backgrounding for Undertow (year 13)
 CptButton: I wonder how many semi-juncts are left by then....
 CptButton: Tannen Darley lasted 10 years or so, IIRC
      Kaas: Hmmm... where is that lifespan chart
      Kaas: Let's see, according to the time line posted on the
Secret Pens were abolished somewhere between year 10 and year 15, but there
is a question mark.
 CptButton: ah, so it wasn't a very long presisting institution.
      Kaas: And the Psychospatial Navigator is down so I don't know where
the lifespan chart was, but wasn't 10-15 years supposed to be the norm for
semi-juncts and juncts alike?
 CptButton: But do secret pens keep appearing in new areas incorporated
into the Tecton.
      Kaas: Presumably they would at least try to come up with a better way
of dealing with it as they gained experience in conquering.
      Kaas: Like pushing the juncts farther into new territories for example
      Kaas: Kind of like big cities and homeless people :-/
 CptButton: somewhere  near that for juncts I think.  I recall something
about for junct living to see your kids changeover was a win, lifestylewise.
      Kaas: Yeah
 CptButton: I should write down that thing I keep musing on about "tecton
imperialism" sometime (standard refrain).
      Kaas: Dyon has been working with something to do with a small
territory in the Arizona area being conquered by the Tecton and how the
people adjust and adapt
      Kaas: and not
Kaas: She has almost an entire story written
      Kaas: Heh heh I guess there was nobody left that JL felt required to
say bye to.
 CptButton: was arizona outside nivet?  is rialite around there somewhere?
      Kaas: I think Rialite was farther toward the coast wasn't it?
 CptButton: I'd have to dig out the map....
 CptButton: OTOH maybe rialite was in another territory, that was why it
was considered a safe haven at the tecton meeting in ZD
      Kaas: Hmmm....
      Kaas: A very long travel time was definitely implied.
 CptButton: I'd assumed tha the tecton and gen territory used a "good
guy/bad guy" set up.  The tecton invites you to join them, if you refuse,
the gen government send military aid to bordering gen territories.
 CptButton: (if that makes any sense.)
      Kaas: The way she had it worked out, there were 2-3 tribes in the
area and the Tecton sided with one of them to help them wipe out their
ancestral enemies, in exchange for taking on Tecton laws and ways gradually
over time (as provided by treaty)
      Kaas: She was using sort of an American Indian motif
 CptButton: Classic colonialism, divide and conquer tactics.
      Kaas: yeah
 CptButton: One thing I saw in the archive was something about NA bottoming
out at hunter-gather tech levels, which was farther down than I thought.
      Kaas: Yeah me too
 CptButton: I was assuming that gunpowder was never lost.
      Kaas: But Dyon has been doing a bunch with a pre-technology society there
      Kaas: maybe only in parts?
 CptButton: certainly plausible.
      Kaas: I mean, it makes sense that predominantly Gen holdfasts could
retain more technology than other larger areas
 CptButton: especially in areas that had a mini-ZD
      Kaas: And it makes absolutely no sense that their society would turn
out so much like ours (with even the same technology) if they had totally
lost everything.
 CptButton: sime dominated until the population really crashes.
            CptButton nods.
 CptButton: which would be more plausible in a desert region like arizona,
I suppose.
      Kaas: In one of her societies (the one that sided with the Tecton) Gens were in charge, and Simes were forced to woo and beg until they could find a compatible partner for life.
      Kaas: Those that couldn't were thrown out to die.
      Kaas: The other society was raider tribes who raided the first
society for Gens to kill.
 CptButton: I'm thinking Gen socieites are often very insular, defending
their borders but not making any real attempt to expand or explore beyond
      Kaas: Yeah that would make sense
      Kaas: Considering they would have a tough time even maintaining their numbers much less growing
 CptButton: yeah like I've said before, they lose 1/3 of their population
at the worst posible age economically.
 CptButton: all the costs of raising them, and then they die right before
they become productive adults.
      Kaas: And of course with no antibiotics or anything they would still
be dying off at the rates we were before we invented them too
      Kaas: I mean, the ones who didn't change over or get shot or get killed
 CptButton: Yeah.
Kaas: Well, I am going to go until the game which is in another 2 and
a half hours.
 CptButton: Ok.  see you later!
      Kaas: in #naros
      Kaas: You're welcome to come by! :-)
Kaas: [hugs]
 CptButton: I'll see if I can.
 CptButton: *hugs*
*** Disconnec

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