Where Sime and Gen Meet, Creativity Happens
Workshop:Fanzine Writing For Profit
Field of Dreams Chatroom - 2/19/03
AmbrovZeor: I came early to see if anyone was here. (this is Jacqueline Lichtenberg)
KMacLEOD323: I know who that is... if I didn't, then why am I here? Hi,
AmbrovZeor: I was of course talking to Rosa -- Karen has known me since
LOONNNG before I got this AOL account.
HOST WPLC Danie: hello
HOST WPLC Danie: How is everyone?
AmbrovZeor: I invited Anne Pinzow and she's going to come too -- but she's
watching "Enterprise" I think she said.
KMacLEOD323: I'm giving up a remake of a classic Twilight Zone.... but its
AmbrovZeor: It's been a lovely day here in Phoenix, and I planted onions in
the garden this morning. Rain tomorrow will be perfect.
KMacLEOD323: Melting 28 inches of snow in the Maryland area...
AmbrovZeor: My taper is running!
AmbrovZeor: I usually don't watch TV at night -- I read for my column - Rosa
is having a time with her connection!
KMacLEOD323: Can't do that with "rabbit ears," Jacqueline.
KMacLEOD323: I'm logging the chat, hopefully.....
AmbrovZeor: Smcollie -- hello -- this is Jacqueline Lichtenberg.
AmbrovZeor: Rosa is struggling to get on.
KMacLEOD323: Looks like we lost both our moderators.
AmbrovZeor: I see Rosa logged on with a star -- like doing a mail
KMacLEOD323: No...she got tossed off, and is reconnecting....
AmbrovZeor: That's what I figured.
AmbrovZeor: sometimes when you get cut off, you have to wait for the memory
to clear before they'll let you back on again. Mostly that's been cured with
the upgrades though.
AmbrovZeor: So how DO you log this chat window?
KMacLEOD323: In AOL 7, go to FILE -- LOG MANAGER
KMacLEOD323: learned that with the last chat I did here.
KMacLEOD323: If it logs as I think it will, I can share it.
AmbrovZeor: AH, I found it and turned it on.
KMacLEOD323: Mine has been on since the beginning...though I miss using our
server for this stuff.
AmbrovZeor: Smcollie - hello again! and Danie is back.
AmbrovZeor: I'll be right back folks.
HOST WPLC Danie: okay nothing like them booting the co host out
AmbrovZeor: Yes, I saw that. I'll be RIGHT back.
KMacLEOD323: Danie, I'm logging and will share the log.
Smcollie: Hi...sorry about that...there are times I think I hate AOL...and
then there are times I know I hate AOL
HOST WPLC Danie: I love aol
HOST WPLC Danie: because of this writing group
Smcollie: Danie, you're a chat host...you have to say that. I used to be a
chat host and I had to say that then, too
KMacLEOD323: Most chats Jacqueline Lichtenberg and I do, we do on a private
server. And Jacqueline will tell you of our own writing school.
HOST WPLC Danie: no I don't
Smcollie: Danie, it's a joke
Smcollie: Hi, Rosa!
HOST WPLC Danie: oh sorry
HOST WPLC Rosa: hi folks
HOST WPLC Danie: college is getting to me
HOST WPLC Danie: hey you want some velcro to go with that
HOST WPLC Rosa: I'll stay as long as AOL lets me :)
HOST WPLC Rosa: LOL ain't that the truth
AmbrovZeor: Rosa! Good to "see" you!
KMacLEOD323: I'm logging, Rosa, so you should have a log, unless I get
Smcollie: LOL, Danie...I can sympathize...finished up undergrad in Dec and
started on the masters this semester
HOST WPLC Rosa: I haven't been able to surf the web for over a week
HOST WPLC Rosa: and this is the first time I've been allowed back into the
chat room for two weeks
HOST WPLC Rosa: whew
AmbrovZeor: We've noticed slowdowns on the web as well -- we've been tracing
AmbrovZeor: I found some of the problem is just timing out at the major
routers -- other routers are unreachable at least from Phoenix.
HOST WPLC Rosa: hey host duff :)
HOST WPLC Danie: Hey duff
AmbrovZeor: We're developing a crowd here already.
KMacLEOD323: Even with 28 inches of snow in Maryland, I haven't had many
connectivity problems. Keeping fingers crossed.
HOST WPLC DuffR: Darn, Rosa. Forgot I was in uniform. I'll be back
HOST WPLC Rosa: Ambrov and Karen are from SimeGen.com
HOST WPLC Danie: no don't
HOST WPLC Danie: wear clothes pleaseeee
HOST WPLC Rosa: I thought you were taking my place Duff
Smcollie: DuffR's coming undressed
HOST WPLC Danie: this isn't a strip chat, duff
HOST WPLC Danie: 8-)
HOST WPLC Rosa: LOL
AmbrovZeor: Well at least lose the insignia off the uniform.
HOST WPLC DuffR: I've been working online so long today, I forgot who I was,
HOST WPLC Danie: you know that is a sign of old age
AmbrovZeor: That happens to me a lot, especially working on Amazon.
HOST WPLC DuffR: Danie, don't remind me.
HOST WPLC DuffR: LOL
AmbrovZeor: Rosa, this is for you to insert when you think it might help.
The URL for the page we created to help with the pasting problem here.
HOST WPLC DuffR: My pup done ate my Sunday-Go-To-Meetin' tennis shoes, and
I've been barefoot all day.
KMacLEOD323: I also have that URL in my clipboard for pasting when
appropriate, Jacqueline. Lots of information posted there.
AmbrovZeor: Yes, we accumulated quite a bunch of stuff there -- rich with
AmbrovZeor: And yes, Karen I saw your note about editing the page -- later.
KMacLEOD323: and helpful information....
HOST WPLC Danie: My one story is going into Junebug's newsletter , Rosa
HOST WPLC Danie: Hello AP
AmbrovZeor: Oh, Anne is here!
HOST WPLC Danie: how are you ?
KMacLEOD323: I noticed.... Hi, Anne
APinzow: Fine, and you.
AmbrovZeor: Anne is the other celebrity I invited to join us.
HOST WPLC Danie: well she got booted again
AmbrovZeor: She started as a fanzine editor and now makes her living as a
AmbrovZeor: She's also become a professional script writer.
AmbrovZeor: And she still has been known to write a fanzine story or two on
HOST WPLC Danie: to write a script
APinzow: Even won an award for one recently
APinzow: Also nominated for fanzine writer of the year.
APinzow: But that's in another fandom and under a psudonym
AmbrovZeor: So as I said in my promo that Rosa posted for this -- fanzine
writing for PROFIT.
KMacLEOD323: I was in 24th place as an editor in the PREDITORS and EDITORS
HOST WPLC Danie: I would love to get paid to write
AmbrovZeor: But the profit isn't always money -- sometimes it comes in other
ways -- in things you can't buy for money.
AmbrovZeor: In our case - Karen, me, Jean and Anne -- the profit is a career
KMacLEOD323: That's so, Jacqueline, and I'm a prime example of that. The
web page has that information.
HOST WPLC Danie: Let's give others a chance to roam in
APinzow: As a journalist, I get to meet a great many interesting people, go
places I wouldn't ordinarily go, etc.
HOST WPLC Danie: will start in a little bit
AmbrovZeor: I assume this chatroom works like others and people who come in
new don't see all that's been posted before?
HOST WPLC DuffR: What, if I may ask, is Fanzine?
HOST WPLC Rosa: yes Ambrov
AmbrovZeor: Oho, nothing like starting at the very beginning!
AmbrovZeor: A fanzine is defined as a magazine written by fans FOR fans --
it is amateur in that it is "sold" for the cost of production, and nobody
gets MONEY for what they contribute.
AmbrovZeor: In fact, traditionally, fanzines are funded out of the editor's
pocket -- few ever break even.
APinzow: Money, no, experience, plenty of it.
HOST WPLC DuffR: Is that online or hard copy, Ambrov?
KMacLEOD323: Both...but they started in paper....
AmbrovZeor: Star Trek fanzines changed all that, though -- and 'zines there
were breaking even, and sometimes even making enough to afford things like
AmbrovZeor: Yes, I'm talking "traditionally"
AmbrovZeor: The question was "what's a fanzine" -- so it takes a bit of deep
dark history to explain.
AmbrovZeor: TODAY - on the other hand ---- fanzines have become e-zines.
AmbrovZeor: Fanzines posted online are very much CHEAPER than the old
KMacLEOD323: and mine is still both print and e-zine...even after 25 years.
AmbrovZeor: Yes, I was getting to COMPANION IN ZEOR.
AmbrovZeor: KMacLEOD323 over there in the corner -- step forward!
AmbrovZeor: She is the sole surviving editor of the 5 or so different
fanzines devoted to my professional series called Sime~Gen.
KMacLEOD323: You're doing a good job...considering it is your "fault."
KMacLEOD323: Anne is another zine survivor, who has a career that began in
AmbrovZeor: Jean Lorrah and I write the novels, and fans have gone on and
added original characters and enlarged the world's background, producing
professional level pros, but still fanzine material.
AmbrovZeor: You have to have read the novels to REALLY understand the
stories in a dedicated fanzine.
APinzow: I got my start as a professional writer from editing and publishing
AmbrovZeor: Something like the stories posted related to TV shows -- you
have to watch the show to really understand and enjoy the posted stories.
HOST WPLC DuffR: ?
KMacLEOD323: And some of those fanzine authors have become progessional
KMacLEOD323: ===professional authors=====
APinzow: Oh, they can be progressional too.
AmbrovZeor: Those stories are fan-stories. They would be in a 'zine IF they
were collected and edited and combined with other kinds of material (such as
you see in a magazine -- poetry, artwork, etc).
AmbrovZeor: Very progressional!
KMacLEOD323: No, that was an editor's typo, Anne. :-)
HOST WPLC Danie: Leon has a comment
AmbrovZeor: They progress toward better and better storytelling skills.
HOST WPLC Danie: Go ahead Leon
KMacLEOD323: I think Duff had a question we didn't get to...
HOST WPLC DuffR: Can you please give me a website to read a few excerpts
from some of them.
AmbrovZeor: Will give you the background material for this chat.
KMacLEOD323: Links to the fanzine stories are in that URL.
AmbrovZeor: It's a long page with an index at the top. You will find
hotlinks strewn throughout the work.
HOST WPLC DuffR: Thanks.
HOST WPLC Danie: Leon you are next
HOST WPLC Rosa: thank you
KMacLEOD323: Question, Leon....
LeonFlet: Enjoy. bye.
AmbrovZeor: Is there a protocol I should be following? I had much more to
say about "what is a fanzine"
HOST WPLC Rosa: No AmbrovZeor there is not
HOST WPLC Rosa: Please continue on
AmbrovZeor: Oh, well then -- OK.
AmbrovZeor: The technically proper term for what you find in most "fanzines"
-- or posted stories online based on TV shows -- is "pastiche."
AmbrovZeor: That's a real word in the dictionary and describes the kind of
derivative fiction we indulge in.
AmbrovZeor: Pastiche is the word.
AmbrovZeor: What we do is write stories in OTHER PEOPLE'S universes. Many
professional writers warn new writers away from doing that.
APinzow: There is a good reason for that.
AmbrovZeor: However, since the advent of Ambrov Zeor (the fanzine devoted to
Sime~Gen) -- the world has changed drastically.
AmbrovZeor: Today, it is possible -- just barely -- to take the experience
gleaned in fanzine writing and take it to a professional level -- i.e. to
PROFIT from writing for fanzines.
AmbrovZeor: Anne you had something to say on that?
APinzow: About 25 years ago, when we were starting these fanzines...
APinzow: There were few, if any professional outlets for this type of
APinzow: The serious beginner was advised to develop the craft of building
their own universes.
APinzow: That's still good advice.
APinzow: You can get mired in someone else's background and your own
creativity can be stunted
APinzow: because you don't learn the entire craft of world building.
KMacLEOD323: Some people aren't that bold or creative. Jacqueline allowed
(and still does) her readers to "play" in her worlds.
APinzow: However, there are a few, not many though, authors who have made a
career of writing in other people's universes.
APinzow: Witness all of the media tie-in books on the market.
AmbrovZeor: Or because your readers KNOW the background so they praise your
story writing -- but you haven't really written the story. You have been
lazy, but they don't notice.
APinzow: Star Trek, of course comes to mind.
AmbrovZeor: Yes, the ST novels are in many ways fan novels -- because they
don't fill in all the ST background readers are expected to know.
APinzow: It is fun, and easier to writ in someone else's universe but then,
when you face the task of building your own, you're lacking the tools.
AmbrovZeor: Anne is making a very important point here.
AmbrovZeor: It is POSSIBLE to learn writing by writing fanzine stories --
but it isn't EASY.
AmbrovZeor: It is much easier to fall for the praise your work garners and
think you're good -- when in fact you're not.
APinzow: What I find fascinating about fanzine writing is that many
fanfiction authors tend to take the characters out of their settings.
AmbrovZeor: Then when you get your first rejections from paying markets, you
AmbrovZeor: Or resentful, which is worse.
XxXratedPapi4u: If anyone wants there work published go to
APinzow: Some do place them in alternate universes or non-traditional
APinzow: However, the stories then seem stilted in a way.
KMacLEOD323: We also teach the craft of writing at our Worldcrafter's School
AmbrovZeor: Where we encourage the use of pastiche to learn -- to teach
APinzow: I've read some fan fiction that is amazing.
APinzow: However, 9 out of ten times it turns out that my favorite
fan fiction writers are pro writers who have developed their own universes.
AmbrovZeor: Storycraft is very complex -- and it's easier to learn a complex
task one piece at a time.
AmbrovZeor: If you have pre-created background to work in, you can
concentrate on characters and dialog.
HOST WPLC Danie: ?
KMacLEOD323: Some pro writers found their beginnings in fanzines.
AmbrovZeor: If you use someone else's characters you can concentrate on
learning to develop background.
AmbrovZeor: MANY professional writers in sf/f began in fanzines -- BUT won't admit
KMacLEOD323: Very true.
APinzow: And you can start to bring in your own charcters.
KMacLEOD323: I think Danie has a question.
AmbrovZeor: Marion Zimmer Bradley did admit starting in fanzines -- but she
also warned against falling into fanzine writing.
HOST WPLC Danie: do you teach how smooth transition from scene to
scene...it seems to be my problem
AmbrovZeor: Yes, the techniques for doing that are laid out in the online
course we have standing called THE ESSENCE OF STORY.
APinzow: There's an easy way to start to learn the art of sequence
AmbrovZeor: Transitions in essence are rooted in POINT OF VIEW -- and when
you find your transitions don't work properly it's because you're not
handling POINT OF VIEW well.
APinzow: Well, I'm a visual person.
AmbrovZeor: Well, it can be KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL -- as the rule.
APinzow: What I do, in fiction and in non-fiction, is to fix on an object.
APinzow: And start with the same object, yes, keeping my eye on the ball.
AmbrovZeor: The other bit of technique that makes transitions work is
following the BECAUSE LINE.
APinzow: You might want to read an article that is posted on Simegen on
making a Torah.
AmbrovZeor: Both of these techniques are taught in the online course, THE
ESSENCE OF STORY.
APinzow: The transitions there are very smooth and I use visuals to do it.
AmbrovZeor: You'll find that linked on the page
http://www.simegen.com/school/ -- and the course is free.
AmbrovZeor: So you can use fanzine writing to teach yourself how to create
smooth transitions in a long piece.
APinzow: The other thing it is good for is to learn how to stay in
AmbrovZeor: As Anne said, it is partially VISUAL -- look out of the eyes of
your POV character and keep track of what the READER expects to "see".
APinzow: Not how to create a character but how to keep characterization
AmbrovZeor: Oh, that's a wonderfully good point, Anne.
AmbrovZeor: Absolutely - when you must write a character who isn't YOURS --
and your readers have some OTHER source of knowledge for that character's
AmbrovZeor: you better keep consistency at the top of things -- or your
scene transitions will be very jarring.
APinzow: For instance, I was just watching "Enterprise."
AmbrovZeor: In fact, I can't think of any OTHER way to learn how to keep
characters consistent actually.
AmbrovZeor: Oh, tell us!
APinzow: Now, if I wanted to write Captain Archer, there are several traits
I'd think off right off the bat.
APinzow: He's distrustful of Vulcans.
AmbrovZeor: He loves his dog.
APinzow: So, anytime I wanted to write a scene with him and a Vulcan, other
than T'pol, he'd have to start off very guarded.
APinzow: He's also an heroic character.
APinzow: He wants to experience everything and is not shy about taking
APinzow: 'Cause after all, he's earned it.
APinzow: He also loves to watch water polo.
APinzow: Many times, writers will take a particular phrase, often used by
APinzow: and by using it, assume they are writing in character.
KMacLEOD323: Jacqueline -- there is an article you wrote on Characterization
that is on the page of links.
APinzow: But the phrase is not the character.
APinzow: The phrase comes out of the character's traits.
KMacLEOD323: The collection of traits helps in the construction of the
character, to make him "real."
AmbrovZeor: Oh, yes, those just joining us -- for background on what we're
talking about go to
APinzow: Good point, Karen.
AmbrovZeor: Like Spock saying "Logical" all the time -- used wrong as Anne
is explaining, it makes him UN-Spock-like.
KMacLEOD323: The catch phrase being just one of his "traits" and part of his
personality to make him real.
AmbrovZeor: Note how T'pol doesn't say it ALL the time, but you know she's
APinzow: Learning the elements of character is something that can be gotten
from writing fan fiction.
APinzow: Once you learn how to put a character together, then you can take
that and put your own together.
AmbrovZeor: One thing you learn very quickly is that how you see a
characcter is NOT how others see them.
APinzow: That's very true.
AmbrovZeor: Marion Zimmer Bradley (my mentor in writing) used to quote the
following -- "The book the reader reads is not the book the writer wrote."
-- it's a famous quote and I forget where it comes from.
APinzow: Characters are NOT representations of their creators.
AmbrovZeor: Except for Lt. Mary Sue of course.
APinzow: Though every character has elements of the writer in them.
AmbrovZeor: In fanzine writing, it is not only permitted, but actually a
recognized sub-genre -- to write yourself into the story as you wish you
APinzow: In the screenplays I've written, I have the most fun writing the
AmbrovZeor: Which if you know Anne, is hard to imagine.
MsWriteone: I write good guys with problems
APinzow: It can be very scary to explore your own imagination in that area.
KMacLEOD323: Laugh....I don't think anyone here knows the story of "Lt. Mary
Sue" except die hard fan writers/editors.
APinzow: Jacqueline's bad guys always tend to be good guys with problems.
AmbrovZeor: Yes, stories where you can't tell the good guys from the bad
guys -- Marion Zimmer Bradley used to say --- again a famous quote -- "The
Villain is the Hero of HIS OWN STORY."
APinzow: They may be homicidal, but that's just their problem.
APinzow: Bad guys are REALLY bad when they are doing things for "the good of
APinzow: They don't see themselves as bad.
AmbrovZeor: And in fact we cover that issue (heroes and villains --
protagonist and antagonist) in THE ESSENCE OF STORY also.
AmbrovZeor: As I said, you'll find that free course at
AmbrovZeor: They have what they see as good REASONS for what they do --
APinzow: That motivation may be skewed in some way.
APinzow: But to them, it makes some sense.
AmbrovZeor: And that brings us back to Anne's point -- CHARACTER CONSISTENCY
-- to make the character consistent and make people believe in him/her, you
need MOTIVATION to be believable.
APinzow: Actually, it's skewed to us, the good guys, not to them.
AmbrovZeor: You have to argue the reader into believing "6 impossible things
AmbrovZeor: You have to present your POV characters view of life the
universe and everything in such a way that the reader believes it -- can
identify with it.
APinzow: Actually, waking up in a bad mood and having to make breakfast for
a bunch of obstinate children can give you a lot of experience in that area.
AmbrovZeor: And there's the cue you need to find the correct POV character.
Look at who you expect to enjoy reading this story -- and make your POV
character a person your typical reader can BECOME for a few hours while
APinzow: So, your main character might feel, having had that experience,
that the most important thing in the word, the one thing worth fighting for,
is keeping the refrigerator door closed when not in use.
AmbrovZeor: That's an excellent example, Anne!
AmbrovZeor: I can truly relate to that.
APinzow: You can build an entire universe on that one concept.
APinzow: To other people, keeping the refrigerator door closed when not in
use is just good common sense
APinzow: Not to mention energy efficient.
APinzow: But few, if any, would go to war over it.
AmbrovZeor: Your POV character could be driven to the brink of murder and
you could make everyone reading the story feel like doing murder to keep that
AmbrovZeor: Or you could write a terrific COMEDY based on the inability to
keep that door closed.
APinzow: There was a movie a few years ago called "Serial Mom"
APinzow: It was very controversial.
AmbrovZeor: The poor POV character fails and fails -- and the lightbulb
burns out and the trip to the store to get a new one - and... and... and. Create
APinzow: Some thought it was hysterically funny while others thought it was
KMacLEOD323: Or you could have a cat get into that refrigerator, and you
close the door on them, which was a true event. Later a very cold (but
alive) cat was found.
APinzow: However, as a professional writer, sick or controversial is relevant
only in that it makes money.
AmbrovZeor: aha - Anne has gotten to the POINT!
APinzow: The story evolved around a mother who would kill for what she
thought was right.
AmbrovZeor: And yes, Karen - oh, yes indeed -- the objective is achieved
(door closed at last) -- and turns out to be a terrible event.
KMacLEOD323: No, this happened to someone I know...and the cat wasn't in the
fridge long. It is a true story, though unlikely.
AmbrovZeor: Nsummers - you had something to say?
Nsummers882: I read that book, it took me forever. It was so real and horrible
AmbrovZeor: "Serial Mom" I think you mean?
APinzow: She killed if her daughter didn't get to be the cheerleader or got
Nsummers882: but was a mind I knew existed
APinzow: As it happened, there were later news stories about that same thing
Nsummers882: yes I just could not believe but it was real
KMacLEOD323: It was real...a real news event.
AmbrovZeor: Any other questions then?
APinzow: The thing is that to that character, she was only doing things that
she thought were right.
AmbrovZeor: And of course that's what makes a character CONSISTENT -- "only"
doing what they think is right.
KMacLEOD323: Our chat background URL is
AmbrovZeor: It's in that consistency of characterization that you reveal
AmbrovZeor: So these are the writing techniques you can learn by writing
pastiche -- or fanzine fiction.
AmbrovZeor: And quite frankly I can't think of a single OTHER way to really
APinzow: But this only works if you don't rest on your laurels.
HOST WPLC DuffR: Ambrov. I could show you a few other concepts if you'd
AmbrovZeor: With TV or novel based fanfic you have an audience of people who
know what you're TRYING to say -- so they can tell you when you didn't say
AmbrovZeor: Ask away DuffR
HOST WPLC DuffR: I don't ask, Ambrov, I teach plot points and other
AmbrovZeor: We hope to get this chat text cleaned up and posted.
HOST WPLC DuffR: Just my approach. Sorry.
AmbrovZeor: Oh, did you want to do a discourse on PLOTTING?
AmbrovZeor: Because we didn't touch on how fanzine writing forces you to
learn the benefits of PLOTTING.
HOST WPLC DuffR: Anytime you'd like Ambrov. I'm game.
AmbrovZeor: I'm assuming everyone here knows who we all are and has no
HOST WPLC Danie: ?
HOST WPLC Rosa: Do we have any more questions ... Danie
HOST WPLC Danie: What if you are character driven?
HOST WPLC DuffR: The purpose for this room is not to sell services. It's to
HOST WPLC Danie: my plots circle around characters
KMacLEOD323: Our services are at NO CHARGE to anyone. Visit the websites.
HOST WPLC Rosa: Duff.. You missed the chat that said it was free
HOST WPLC DuffR: I did, KMac. Already.
AmbrovZeor: The character driven plot is what Jean Lorrah, Anne and I write.
HOST WPLC Rosa: Please refrain from accusations in my chat .. thank you
HOST WPLC DuffR: I'm a minute away from my chat Rosa. Sorry.
HOST WPLC DuffR: I've heard enough. So sorry.
AmbrovZeor: Learning to create what Manhattan publishers call a "strongly
plotted" novel that is character driven is what the fanzine writing can do
for you that you REALLY can't get elsewhere.
HOST WPLC Rosa: If there is no more questions for Jean, Jacqueline, or Anne
AmbrovZeor: That's because the fanzine reader already knows something about
HOST WPLC Rosa: We Thank the Staff at SimeGen.com for their wonderful chat
this evening and the help they offer.
AmbrovZeor: And every time you make a mistake it will be noted and get back
to you in a comment.
AmbrovZeor: Ah, I guess we're done.
APinzow: Bye, everyone, it was a pleasure.
AmbrovZeor: Thank you, Anne.
HOST WPLC Danie: Thank you for coming
AmbrovZeor: You did a great job.
HOST WPLC Rosa: Thank you for a good job gals... ta ta for now
AmbrovZeor: I'll hang around for a while if you want to chat.
KMacLEOD323: This is someone else's chat time, Jacqueline, they are done
HOST WPLC Rosa: thank you
AmbrovZeor: Ah, OK - bye guys!
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