Sime~Gen™ Inc. New Years Chat - 2009

This is a record of the informal chat among Sime~Gen participants, going on in a separate chatroom, concurrent with the formal business meeting.

The business meeting was called to order, proceeded through the agenda, and was formally adjourned.

This discussion flowed on in the background, before, during and after the meeting.

irc_name -- 'real' name
<JL`> -- Jacqueline Lichtenberg
<Midge> -- Midge Baker
<Karen> -- Karen MacLeod
<Donna> -- Donna Halper
<patric> -- Patric Michael
<Seanara> -- Seanara Coyote
<Kaires> -- Kaires Tevesu
<Mary Lou> -- Mary Lou Mendum
<MTZ> -- Margaret Carr
<Laurrain1> -- Laurraine Tutihasi
<Anne> -- Anne Pinzow
<Lexie13> -- M. Alexis Pakulak a/k/a "Lexie"
<Eliza> -- Eliza ambrov Halwyn
<zoe1> -- Zoe Farris

Session Start: Thu Jan 01 14:25:39 2009 EST

* Karen changes topic to 'CHAT ROOM -- side chat meeting in #sgchat'
<patric> Oh. Yeah. Good point.
<JL`> I think flexibility might be a good thing to have. Karen2 is Karen's second log -- Patric's connection is dicey. good now we're cooking!
<patric> Whoo hoo!
<MTZ> am I too early?
<patric> Margaret! Howdy! Not a bit...
<MTZ> great.hi
<JL`> Right on time Margaret!
<MTZ> oh good hi everyone. long year!
<JL`> We're just testing and setting up now. Meeting is called for about 55 minutes from now. Meanwhile, we can chatter in #sgtalk for a while, and say hello and find out who each person is as they join.
<patric> notes rather dryly that he didn't have mIRC installed on any current machine. Realized that when I woke up this morning...
<MTZ> ah, oops
<JL`> Ah, Patric -- so many NEW COMPUTERS and re-installing on various drives this year!
<patric> Good news is a have a new agent voice. Almost miss the old Aussie... heh
<patric> wb Karen! JL, yes. Almost impossible to keep up with them all...
<Anne> Hah, hah, I'm at Jacqueline's. I'm in the next room
<patric> Oh! That Anne. Sorry...
<Karen> Someone op me in the first room... I set it to moderate, so I can't get through.
<patric> At least I am not typing by lamp this time.
<Anne> She's been having a great time emailing me instead of just calling out to me.
<patric> Only JL can do that.
<Anne> What Anne did you think I was?
<patric> laughs. I bet. There is another Anne bouncing around here sometimes.. Can't remember her last name.
<Karen> Anne partridge
<Anne> Oh
<patric> Oi. A third then... I don't recognize that last name.
<JL`> Partridge is the harpist
<Karen> On the list she's Ann Piccolo... bagpipes.
<JL`> Pinzow is the journalist. That too music.
<patric> Right. The one I am thinking about has other names as well. I lose track.
<JL`> How do we get this room op'd?
<patric> Pinzow I know from "orange"
<JL`> Do we all have to leave first?
<patric> Don't think we NEED it opped.
<Karen> Don't NEED this one opped if it isn't moderated. Only if moderated.
<JL`> We might HAVE to go to moderated.
<Karen> Can't op... since my first connection died. If we all leave, I can enter it again and op it. No reason if this is the SIDE CHAT. Then we all have to leave this room, and come back to it. First one is the one with the OP
<patric> Ok. Leaving #sgtalk. Everyone out of the pool....
<JL`> So I'll leave... let me know when to come back. There are a lot of things I do barely once a year and I really dislike to go to what I remember and find it not--there!
<patric> But boy howdy, putting common programs on a single external drive to swap between machines is awesome.
<MTZ> okay, since you had to ask who I was--former Essence of Story student, founder of epress-online
<JL`> Yes, I can see how that would simplify your life. Yes, I remember MTZ = EPRESS. How's that business going?
<Karen> Tom is thinking of doing something like that for me, once I get the desk computer back.
* patric grins at Margaret. As if the NAME would be forgotten.. :)
<MTZ> two EPPIE finalists this year
<JL`> WHOO -- HUUUU! That's just great.
<patric> Congratulations, Margaret!
<MTZ> looking at adding our books to the Kindle store
<Anne> Congratulations
<JL`> Yeah, you gotta be in Kindle, I think ---- but there are a lot of people on EPIC who don't like Kindle readers.
<MTZ> thanks. for one of our authors it is her second finalist the ouch factor is they only pay 35% of list
<patric> Thats awesome, and Kindle is overpriced. See what I mean? hehe
<JL`> Yeah, it's a mass market business. But the problem is it's way over-priced for buyers.
<MTZ> yes, but most of the Kindle buyers will probably not venture beyond the Kindle store, so if we want to reach them....
<patric> That, and they are trying to get ahead of the deficit they built up in creating Kindle. As long as there is no exclusivity with Kindle...
<Karen> I don't even own an I-pod, so anything's overpriced.
<patric> When Kindle displays multimedia, then, I'll look at them again.
<MTZ> no, fortunately. it is non-exclusive just like Fictionwise (for publishers at least)
<patric> Ah, that's good. Someone at Amazon had a brain cell... Exclusive, at that crappy price and no one would bite except the self published hacks... (No, I'm not opinionated... lol)
<MTZ> yes. although I've heard that both FW and Kindle have more restrictive contracts for authors
<patric> Whats FW? I don't recognize it...
<Karen> FictionWise...
<MTZ> Fictionwise
<patric> Oh. D'oh. Sorry.
<Karen> place books are listed, and sold from. Every author wants their books available there.
<MTZ> sigh, we were lucky to get on there when we did. they've really tightened up since
<patric> When Kindle can play my trailers AND the text on the same machine, that would be the thing....
<MTZ> only needed ten titles then, now at least 25. Ah, Patric, I look at it a little differently
<patric> I can imagine. I suspect there is a bit of scooping going on as brick and mortars fold... How so?
<MTZ> may write an article about One size fits none. See, there are a lot of legacy readers around, PDAs, old Rockets, you name it
<patric> I will look forward to reading it. Especially since my perspective is more as a consumer...
<MTZ> some are very limited
<patric> Yes, I know.... I HAVE one. :)
<MTZ> if there is only one standard, then all the others are out of luck
<Karen> I'm waiting until all the tech wars die down some. Can't afford new tech every year or so.
<MTZ> imagine trying to do everything with just a Winnebago RV, shopping, taking kids to school, hauling lumber, etc.
<patric> Oh wait. I think we are talking about two different things.. I am not talking about a single standard. I am talking about ANY standard.
<Karen> JL - sent you a list of awards -- check your mailbox. The award site isn't up-to-date, and there's typos in it, but I pulled them from there.
<JL`> Yes, Margaret, I agree with you -- BUT we keep getting started in these industries by proliferating various standards then we have this problem of legacy.
<MTZ> yep, and there will be some trimming
<JL`> What publishers (you excepted of course) don't understand is that a book is FOREVER -- not read--and-toss for everyone. (though read-and-toss is sometimes what a reader wants!)
<Karen> "Legacy" is my problem now, moving from a Pentium 3 to a better computer... all the software changes.
<patric> laughs and thinks of his pickup truck, which does all those things, AND is an RV as well. (Heavily modded....)
<MTZ> my old VTech Helio and its plain text only reader will eventually die
<Karen> I lost half my van space when they put in the scooter lift.
<MTZ> but, I could still go to Fictionwise and download something that would work on it until then
<patric> Its not so much a factor of "legacy" as backward compatibility.
<MTZ> yes, Karen, that is another factor. the more you cram on the less space for each
<patric> Even Kindle could do very well if it had a wider base, and sold a converter that would rewrite the old stuff to the Kindle format....
<MTZ> yes, and all the New, greatest ever stuff seems to forget that, Patric
<patric> By wider base I mean a broader capability for display. E-ink is NOT the thing yet....
<MTZ> actually, Fictionwise has Kindle compatible mobi as a format
<Karen> Backward compatibility came up with the Australian author I just worked with. He had to "legacy" the manuscript as I was on Word 2000, and he was using 2007
<patric> I agree, Margaret.
<MTZ> oh, yes, looked at one in the mall (Sony e-ink) and no way
<patric> See FW is catching a clue then. If I am desperate enough to read (and when am I not) I would read a book on my phone screen, tiny as it is, comparatively.
<MTZ> ouch Karen, we've run into that. 2007 is a horror
<JL`> Margaret -- KINDLE COMPATIBLE MOBI? How does that work? I use mobipocket on my PALM TX.
<Karen> I'm going to have all kinds of Word on my new machine, including open office, but NOT 2007 if I can help it.
<MTZ> Well, as I understand it the Kindle format is based on mobi and I think people use the Amazon version for ten cents method um, have you ever read the blog Pub Rants? An agent who got one and adores it she loads the partials and fulls on it that way, from doc or rtf files
<patric> Hmm.. I didn't realize Amazon HAD a conversion facility..... But even at ten cents... I'd rather do it myself. Does that make me an elitist? grin.
<JL`> Yes, I read PUB RANTS.
<patric> I haven't read it...
<MTZ> patric, there will be a way. just wait a bit
<JL`> I'm an end-user. I'd rather not have any converting involved. It should just work.
<MTZ> actually, there may already be. Yes, JL, most readers will think that way
<patric> nods.. I have a .lit converter so if one is possible, all is possible. They already do, near as I can tell... :D :D
<MTZ> that's why being on both Fictionwise and the Kindle store is important to us
<JL`> My mobipocket software makes absolute hash of some kinds of files - especially PDF files. Yes, Fictionwise and Kindle are minimal necessity now.
<MTZ> yep. hate PDF, but gotta use it for some stuff
<patric> That's because the PDF format has changed a lot since you got yours.
<JL`> Yes, Patric, I know -- and they "don't support" the old hardware.
<patric> Pure economics... Ben there, done that, bought the UPGRADE.. sigh.
<MTZ> and price is soooo high on the publishing end
<JL`> Yes, the world is changing faster and faster each year, and I think even with this recession it'll continue to change.
<Anne> It will change faster because of the recession.
<patric> I suspect the recession will CAUSE a lot of changes....
<JL`> One thing is they're working to develop more electrical efficiency (longer lasting batteries --- machines that drink less juice) and that means a whole new architecture.
<patric> Exactly. :)
<MTZ> yep, recession may make it bumpy but won't stop change.
<Anne> People are going to have to deal with both more and less technology
<patric> Its still a doomed architecture. When they can make a battery that recharges wirelessly, then it can be saved. Less tech, only because so much will be consolidated...
<JL`> I read through a summary page Patric found on social networking developments in 2008, and they are ramping up the technology behind those sites with millions of dollars invested.
<MTZ> ah, some phones and PDAs have solar recharge built in, I think
<Anne> Less tech because so many more people won't be able to afford it. You've all be talking about hand held readers. I don't have one.
<patric> I disagree, Anne.. People will find a way to afford it simply because there wont be an alternative.
<Anne> I've only heard about them but haven't even seen one.
<MTZ> oh yes, Anne, and lots of publicity about how they are extending access but they don't tell you how it really works. Like broadband
<patric> Example: My aunt refuses to learn about or learn ON a computer. She is thuswise stuck in a job she can never get out of...
<MTZ> great for schools and such, but not so great for poor folks
<patric> Depends on where you live, Margaret...
<MTZ> ouch, Patric
<Karen> I **need** broadband, but I CAN'T find a way to budget for it.... exactly. No $$$ available in my finances.
<JL`> You're right about the FINANCIAL DIVIDE.
<Anne> There are people who are still Ludites, in fact most are.
<JL`> But we also have a generational divide. Actually, we've topped 50% of households with in-home computers.
<patric> Portland has free wi-fi, build as a network of donated width from merchants. It s a draw to get folks into their stores and areas.
<Karen> My retired mechanic, in his 70's wants my old computer and to learn to use it when I get the new one.
<MTZ> yep. know a writer near me who desperately wants broadband DSL, but she's on LifeLine phone. can't have it
<Karen> Jay Schiff loved computers and gadgets.
<Anne> I know that many people, given the money, will buy high tech tools but it's a fad for them, not a way of life.
<JL`> Yes, Karen -- he's a beacon for the rest of us.
<MTZ> that's a city area, Patric
<Karen> I have finances for better connections than Lifeline phone, but I can't BUDGET for everything if the income doesn't go up, but all the prices DO go up.
<patric> JL.. The divide is shifting, sad to say. Us old farts will die off and then there won't BE a divide.
<MTZ> second that Karen!
<Karen> smile... old fart... you're younger than I am, Patric.
<patric> Yes, a city area, but an EXAMPLE of the possibility, and the trend.
<JL`> There'll be a new divide -- always. Kids MAKE them. That's what kids are for.
<Karen> Never had kids, for which I am grateful.
<Anne> I live in a senior citizen complex and I'm the youngest resident.
<JL`> I was in Denver for Worldcon and they had one of those merchant wi-fi things, but I couldn't get my e-mail through it.
<patric> But every kid who decides to make a divide will have grown up with technology. See the point?
<MTZ> and some of the kids will be Luddites, and some old farts will joyously great anything new
<JL`> Kids don't decide to "make a divide" -- kids ARE a divide.
<Anne> The most any of the more than 200 residents can even think about is e-mail.
<Karen> Yes, I see the point. It took me MONTHS to get the courage to set up the computer when JL gave me my first one.
<Anne> And most of them are terrified of it.
<patric> Sure they will. But the new luddites will have the choice, excluding whatever is developed as new as THEY grow up, of course.
<MTZ> yes, I've run into that
<JL`> Anne is right about how STUCK part of our society is.
<patric> So have I, constantly...
<MTZ> but, epress's oldest author was 92 when we signed her. she started learning computers in her 80s
<JL`> Patric even runs into the STUCK syndrome among the S~G crew.
<Anne> Those are the exceptions.
<patric> Exception to the rule, unfortunately. Patric nods vigorously at JL's comment...
<Anne> Like me.
<Karen> I'll resemble that remark. Patric often gets on me for being behind what I should know.
<JL`> Robert Heinlein was in his 80's when the HARD DRIVE first became available for home use, and GOT ONE INSTANTLY. Even argued with the young techies about which drive architecture was better.
<Anne> When Patric was helping me on something I was so terrified of the tech I was a screaming mimi.
<MTZ> ah, but the exceptions are mostly our leaders. real leaders not just pols
<JL`> I was in his home when he showed me his WINCHESTER DRIVE -- can you believe? And was so happy writing on the computer.
<patric> No Anne, you are different in that you accept (generally) what is suggested. I am talking about the ones that balk at any suggestion.
<JL`> Asimov on the other hand needed to be bribed by Apple to try writing on the computer and then went back to the typer.
<Karen> Well, your friend Joel Davis also went back to the typer.
<patric> Heh. I didn't know that...
<Anne> Poor Joel. I don't mean about the typewriter.
<JL`> Poor Joel indeed.
<Karen> I can't type on a typer to save my life. Then again, the laptop keyboard is the same... can't type on it.
<Anne> Has anybody heard from him since Joanie died?
<Karen> I hear from Joel all the time. Mostly on AIM
<JL`> Yes, I hear from Joel regularly (or irregularly).
<Anne> I hope he's doing be better.
<Karen> He hasn't told me of any true catastrophes lately.
<JL`> He broke a finger and couldn't type -- he's won an award with one of his scripts written with someone else, and is now working on converting a novel into a TV Miniseries.
<Anne> It was a pretty prestigious award actually.
<Karen> I'd type by hunt and peck if I had any fingers out of commission. HE was quite proud of that award....
<JL`> He was REALLY broken up about losing Shirley Maiewski -- and then we lost Joanie Winston. That was awful. He did a grand mitzvah in calling Joanie regularly to buck up her spirits.
<Anne> He also sent her letters, which, unfortunately, she sometimes didn't realize were for her.
<Karen> He's still quite upset over that, and apparently when my elderly cat died, he's still broken up over THAT.
<Anne> But she thought about him a lot.
<JL`> Yeah, and Anne visited Joanie right up to the end.
<Karen> For which ANNE needs to be thanked. I personally thanked Devra Langsam at Darkover this year.
<Anne> Devra is a saint
<Karen> Told Devra that. I see her every year at Darkover
<Anne> She visited Joanie and got involved with her care and was an advocate for her.
<JL`> You know, losing people is extreme PAIN -- but it is also very threatening at a deep psychological level because it signifies change that we want to resist and can't. Anne, I agree about Devra.
<Karen> I felt bad, living close enough in some ways to New York (and Joanie) and not being able to get there due to my own limitations.
<Anne> Don't feel that way Karen.
<Karen> I do, though, but realistically I know I can't help my physical limits.
<MTZ> better physical limits than mental
<Karen> Right now, my mind seems all right... no worse than the "usual" it always was.
<Anne> Joanie knew of all the wonderful things you were doing, sending pictures, getting prayers, etc.
<Karen> Yes, I know that, Anne... its been a rough year, losing Joanie, I also lost Lois Tartaglio --- you may know her from the fanzine, and I don't think I'll ever get over the cat's death.
<Anne> You kept her in everyone's thoughts so that she would not be forgotten.
<Karen> Actually, Devra started that, and JL and I ran with the website idea.
<Anne> I do remember Lois but I hadn't heard she died.
<Karen> She also had Alzheimer's. Lost her this past June. She had been in a home 3 years or so from what Mike Tartaglio told me.
<JL`> Well, you see my point about how the loss of people we know, even peripherally, signifies CHANGE we can't master or control, and it's subconsciously frightening like the SOUND of the I think it's 13 cycle note (or is it 11?)
<Karen> Hadn't seen her in almost 8 years... so I feel bad about that, too.
<JL`> An inaudible TONE that makes you afraid.
<JL`> Lexie!
<Karen> Hi, Lexie...
<MTZ> yes, JL!
<Lexie13> Steve actually... just setting up for Lexie. Hi, everyone!
<MTZ> hi Lexxie
<Anne> Hi
<Karen> Hi, STEVE then.
<JL`> Hi Steve!
<MTZ> hi Steve
<JL`> You're so good to set up for Lexie.
<JL`> We're really miss her if she didn't turn up at this annual chat.
<Lexie13> lol... just up earlier. Wanted to make sure there weren't any problems.
<patric> Steve. Say Hi to Lexie for me. grin.
<Lexie13> will do... brb
<JL`> I'm going to take a quick break and BRB
<MTZ> hi Mary Lou
<MaryLou> Hi, folks! Mary Lou here.
<Anne> Hi Mary Lou
<patric> ML! Welcome!
<MTZ> hi Mary Lou
<JL`> Mary Lou! I'm so glad you could make it.
<Lexie13> back... she'll be here soon
<patric> Thanks Steve...
<Lexie13> Hi, Mary Lou! Steve here.
<MaryLou> Hi, Steve!
<JL`> ah, MaryLou is MaryLou
<patric> jumps into the lexicon editor to fix :MaryLou: from sounding like MarLoo.. :)
<Karen> Hope the world is treating you and yours better Mary Lou... had not heard much lately.
<JL`> Patric is LISTENING to these posts. I think that is so neat! Yes, MaryLou -- how are things going? Especially with your husband.
<patric> Patric is multitasking as usual... Silly fool cant stop long enough to just read. sigh. :)
<Karen> Oh, joy, Patric... if I get the speech elements for the new computer this is what I have to look forward to? Don't know what software they're going to put on it, though.
<MaryLou> Well, after two surgeries and nine months in braces, Bud's neck finally healed.
<Karen> Hey, I always multitask, too. You're not the only one, Patric. That sounds GOOD Mary Lou.
<patric> mIRC has speech built in. Easy to do, and you get used to it, trust me.
<JL`> His neck is better? Can he turn his head? (Bud that is)
<Karen> I'm using an antique version of mIRC right now. 6.03
<MaryLou> Not much. He's fused for the first three cervical vertebrae.
<JL`> 3 vertebrae -- oy. Is he back at work though? All that time immobilized, it has to be phys therapy hell.
<patric> We'll get you upgraded... Trust me. :)
<MaryLou> He will be able to drive, carefully, once we add some extra mirrors.
<Karen> Don't know if I WANT the upgrade. (grin) That sounds encouraging, too, Mary Lou.
<JL`> That is just plain miraculous after all Bud's been through!
<MaryLou> Fortunately, his job is computer-based. He was checking e-mail from the hospital about ten days after he fell. He's working about half time from home. By the end of this next month, we should be able to transport his chair.
<Karen> Guess I should stop griping about my mobility slowing down, now.... can't ride, so my walking is deteriorating, as JL knows from last March.
<JL`> Yes, and we were talking about (before you got here) how fast the world has been changing techwise.
<MaryLou> Then he can actually go into the office for a couple of days a week.
<Karen> YAY!! That sounds wonderful, Mary Lou.
<JL`> With a tech bent, he has options others don't.
<MaryLou> And I will have my first time off in eight months.
<Karen> You need that, Mary Lou....
<JL`> Yes, this has been really hard on you.
<Anne> I know how that can be.
<Karen> It's just about time for the meeting, JL....
<JL`> Yes, I see.
<MaryLou> I have been riding two mornings a week, and I've got a new quilt in progress.
<JL`> We won't wait for Jean this year because she's touring INDIA -- believe it or not -- and can get here only via internet cafe if she can find one at the absurd hour it must be there.
<MaryLou> No writing recently, however, except in Borderlands.
<JL`> Yes, we must mention Borderlands in the meeting. (found and lost Midge)
<patric> 2:28 am Friday morning for Jean right now.
<Karen> Good... you have had time for yourself. Doctor won't let me ride, and can't find one that will. My hips have both deteriorated enough that riding may not be something I can do anymore. **sob** Haven't done so in 3 years.
<JL`> Thanks Patric.
<patric> welcome...
<JL`> I think it unlikely Jean would turn up then. Midge!!!
<MTZ> hi midge
<MaryLou> I'm working on my flying-lead-change-on-purpose, having mastered the flying-lead-change-by-accident some time ago.
<JL`> Margaret, you know Midge now runs REVIEWS for us.
<Karen> Midge, join the other room, too. If using the browser, open two.
<MTZ> aha
<Karen> Oh, Wow, Mary Lou. Never mastered that in dressage.
<patric> snorts with laughter at the accident versus on purpose comment..
<MTZ> sigh, haven't had much luck recruiting reviewers for you. my people are all too overworked
<Karen> Patric, that's how I learned the proper post at the trot in one direction I always had trouble with... accidentially.
<Midge> Hey, Karen, I'm still trying to get to the other talk room
<JL`> Thank you for trying, Margaret.
<Karen> Doing it on purpose is a whole different thing.
<MTZ> wb Anne
<Anne> Got kicked off some how.
<Karen> Midge, you were in the other room at one point, but we lost you there.
<MaryLou> Kiro showed dressage in his younger days, so he doesn't require much encouragement.
<MTZ> well, I have about 40 books stacked up that I'd like to ask you guys to review, but...
<patric> Lost here there when she signed into the second room. Only one at a time from the web interface.
<Karen> Ahhh... that's the problem, then.
<patric> Margaret.. But what?
<MaryLou> I'm on the web interface, and I have both rooms.
<MTZ> well, JL said if I got you some reviewers.... and I haven't
<Karen> Open two browsers, seems to work for the web.
<patric> In two separate tabs, ML? That's what I mean. :)
<JL`> Obviously there's a way to get both rooms.
<patric> Exactly...
<JL`> Margaret, send Midge a list of the books you'd want reviewed. (poor Midge -- she has a report to give)
<patric> And she will show up here...
<JL`> But we really do need more reviewers.
<patric> Margaret. I was asking about why you didn't send the books for review...
<patric> Calling Midge...
<MTZ> well, I did e-mail Lorraine? last year
<JL`> Laurraine, Seanara -- people are logging into #sgchat.
<JL`> Midge, are you finally with us?
<MTZ> oh boy. I wanted to ask about The Simegen Amazon affiliate setup and now we've run out of time
<JL`> Laurraine handed Reviews over to Midge last year, and then Midge had "life" descend, but the department limped through all that.
<Karen> What's the question, Margaret....maybe I have the answer...
<JL`> Midge just finished posting some backed up reviews and we're ready for more books.
<Seanara> Hi, everyone. Oh, good, I'm not late. ~~relieved~~
<Lexie13> okay, folks, it's really me now and not my hubby
<JL`> SG is an affiliate and we run 2 a-stores as will be noted in the meeting. Hi Seanara!
<Karen> JL... you should start the meeting if you can.
<JL`> Hi Lexie.
<Seanara> Hi, JL! So good to "see" you again, albeit virtually.
<Lexie13> Hi, JL and everyone
<JL`> OK everyone ready in #sgtalk for the official meeting. I'll post in bits and when we get to the point you need to post in #sgtalk, Karen will authorize you.
<Karen> Log for me, Seanara if you can. Got tossed by AOL once today already.
<Seanara> I'm logging both chats, Karen.
<Karen> Thank you. I'll ask for them if I need them.
<patric> I am logging both rooms also Karen...
<Karen> Thanks, Patric, but with your connection and electricity, we could lose you, too.
<patric> Perhaps, but I have everything on a UPS at the moment. Battery power! lol
<JL`> Midge -- you ready for your report?
<Midge> yes
<JL`> good -- in sgtalk then.
<Karen> Go ahead, Midge. In the other room.
<Lexie13> and the mention of Joan and Majel reminds me of some sad personal news, but I'll save it till after the official meeting
<Karen> Part of your statistics, Midge aren't getting into the meeting. You may want to send it to me later for inclusion...
<Midge> Okay, c&p left stuff out. Try again?
<JL`> Yes, try again please.
<MTZ> I think the lines exceed mircs maximum length
<Karen> Also send me the entire report via e-mail for inclusion.
<Seanara> Midge the last word that came out was "perhaps."
<Karen> Smile... that seems to be working...
<Seanara> Good. You may have to break up your sentences into shorter segments. :-)
<Karen> Take your time.
<JL`> Kaires isn't here. Anyone think she's coming?
<Karen> I know what's missing, so can add it. Don't know about Kaires. Haven't heard from her in weeks.
<Anne> Karen, the person I interviewed name is not there.
<Karen> I know who it is, Anne. Alan Cole.... taking stuff from the Newsletter.
<Anne> Thanks Karen
* Karen smiles...Gave it to Midge originally. "I haven't been offered any books to consider reviewing...."
<Anne> What does "blocked" mean?
<MTZ> blocked? oh
<JL`> ah, e-mail delivery -- changed e-dress and didn't tell us.
<Anne> Ah
<Karen> May well be that....
<JL`> 162 reviews in a year -- not too shabby.
<MTZ> no, pretty good
<Karen> But the reviews list has been silent lately... can't even consider reviewing a book if I never hear of one.
<Anne> That's a remarkable amount from five people.
<MTZ> reviews list? is that just for reviewers?
<JL`> Remember, the people who aren't here will be here when these chats are posted.
<Karen> Yes.....
<JL`> Reviews List is a list mail to our Reviewers. We offer them books on that list.
<MTZ> thanks
<JL`> We did have a List failure of some sort in the middle of the year, and though I've seen a few posts since, they don't come regularly.
<Karen> The reviewers list hasn't had any new books offered to it at all in December ...
<patric> Coincidental.. The list failed from being overwhelmed with spam, and it was at that point there was a general ramp up/tightening of the big name mail handlers filters. AOL, Google, MSN, etc. We likely got caught in the crush.
<JL`> Yes, but the reviewers who are List members may have forgotten about us - or we may be caught in THEIR spam traps.
<JL`> The content of a typical mailing to reviewers might trigger spam filters.
<Karen> maybe... I always get all my list mail, via AOL.
<patric> Karen... Side note: Might be worth coming up with a formatting scheme to make these C&P sessions easier. Page width, max characters per cut, etc... Post it with the instructions, or to sgstaff would be better so the reports can be formatted ahead of time...
<Karen> Don't KNOW what the limits are to post them.
<patric> JL. That's what I mean. We are caught in THEIR traps, and they don't have the *fine* technical support that our mail has. grin. Karen. I meant determine the limits and write up a list. :)
<Karen> TOO much, and IRC floods... if Midge is using the website, the limit is less than IRC, but I don't know either limit.
<Laurrain1> On reviews, I had some problems, I would've posted a review several days ago. It's a short fiction piece that was sent directly to me by the author.
<MTZ> Reviewer as Matchmaker
<JL`> Did my report read smoothly? I think it all got through. I did it in notepad with wordwrap on, and a fairly small line-linegth.
<Karen> Yes, it's fine, and I'll make it look whole when I clean the logs.
<patric> You did fine, Midge. The interface is the problem...
<Midge> Yeah, found I had to chop it really small
<Laurrain1> My lists mail for S~G are coming through fine, so I can't believe the reviews list is somehow the only one getting caught in spam filters.
<Seanara> Midge, are you using an IRC program or going through a website?
<JL`> Patric -- your surprise demo goes under NEW BUSINESS. Do you have a Sysadmin report?
<patric> Laurraine.. You are also technically capable. Think of folks who aren't... :) Brief, and off the top of my head as usual... :/ Here goes...
<JL`> Karen -- is Patric set for talk?
<Karen> Yes... he is. Look at that room.
<Anne> It's difficult to get people to volunteer when life not only becomes overwhelming but the general state of things is so depressing every time we turn on the news.
<patric> Patric is typing. :)
<Midge> I'm on the domain chat page
<JL`> Midge that could be why you had such a time posting. We have to get you set up with mIRC for next year.
<Karen> That's why the limit, Midge. Using the website.... maybe Patric can correct that later on. mIRC is a free program. No cost.
<Midge> Yeah, okay
<Seanara> Oh, I see, Midge. I'm not sure how that works -- I use mIRC. It will let you type a few lines at a time, but it still cuts off if you enter too much verbiage in one gulp.
<Anne> The only thing I could think of to get more reviewers is to go to "fresh blood"
<Karen> We've tried that, Anne. Can't seem to keep them for long.
<Anne> Maybe kids in collage who would do it for the chance to be included in the site.
<JL`> Anne -- you're right. We just have to FIND where the fresh blood lurks.
<Midge> I think the economy is really killing us this year.
<Karen> The economy is helping no one.
<Midge> Major newspapers are going bankrupt!
<Karen> My business has less work this year than in the past. Newspapers are "old news" and not up to tech, so of course who sits and reads a paper, other than me, and a few others.
<Seanara> JL, fresh blood probably blogs -- and is at the media cons. <wry look>
<Anne> One thing that has happened is that newspapers have and are continuing to cut out anything that isn't news.
<Karen> The ads in the paper are taking up large chunks of page space, too.
<Anne> Try to find a book review in any of the daily newspapers.
<Laurrain1> The recruiting of young fans was discussed at one panel at Worldcon. Contacting schools with SF clubs and libraries was mentioned. I don't know how to implement these things for Sime~Gen, though.
<Karen> Only on Sunday, Baltimore paper, and not many of those.
<Midge> We could try contacting the student unions at individual campuses/
<JL`> I'm on a number of blogs and dropping comments on others -- I'm available on many social networks. Patric is correct, our "look" is antiquated at the moment.
<Karen> Well, if you're not on high speed, anything fancy will be difficult for us dial-up people to "see." But he is right...
<JL`> Yes, and we've hit a real cusp in the change cycle as in February, TV goes digital.
<Midge> How about letting budding authors post their stories on the domain in exchange for reviewing?
<Karen> My flash player in one browser doesn't work, even with the upgrade.
<Karen> Don't think that would work, Midge. Copyright issues.
<JL`> Midge, that's a copyright NIGHTMARE this Corp. isn't prepared for.
<Midge> True
<MTZ> offer a class on how to review
<Karen> That's a thought. Even those who write blurbs for books don't do that well.
<JL`> Anyone have something old they need to discuss? S~G comes under NEW business.
<Anne> That would be a lot of work for someone.
<MTZ> that'd be a another great class to offer
<JL`> Unfinished business?
<patric> Unfinished business, beside the domain upgrade? grin...
<Midge> Are we doing nominations this year?
<Karen> Yes... eventually.
<MTZ> cool on the Inside!
<Midge> Thanks, duh
<MaryLou> Karen, wasn't there a new S/G story awaiting editing a while back? Did that ever get posted
<Karen> Not yet... been working on paid editing, and editing for JL as mentioned above. Might get to that soon.
<MTZ> figure half to two thirds of paperback, mass market prices as appealing
<Karen> Midge --- just e-mailed you something.
<Midge> Got it, Karen.
<JL`> Patric -- you're up!
<MTZ> oh, love Dushau
<Karen> Hopefully you used the edit I cleaned up a couple years ago for Dushau.
<patric> Margaret. So do I. Read the first book and whined for more when we started this project. Finally found the other two.
<Karen> My connection is running slowly.
<Laurrain1> Patric, you're web art looks really great. I wish I could do that.
<Midge> I can't open another tab now, too much on my screen. I'll check Dushau later
<Anne> Patric, that's amazing, both of them.
<MTZ> impressive
<patric> I made these sample images small enough for Karen. The real ones are more hi rez...
<JL`> Margaret -- I saw your comment of half to 2/3 of paperback price, and I agree.
<Karen> still waiting for my dial-up to catch up.... DAMN... I need high speed... I need WORK to afford it.
<MTZ> lol, JL, ever encountered the filk There's a Bimbo on the Cover
<patric> Laugh. I KNEW JL would comment on what missing.... What she doesn't know is that I did this image in three days, when it should have been at LEAST a week to get it all put together...
<MTZ> that's how I priced epress's e-books
<patric> Karen, I will snail you all the hi rez if you want.. These are just samples of what's possible...
<MTZ> although we will be taking length into consideration with the new prices
<JL`> Ah, but this isn't a COVER -- these images (when complete) will tell the whole STORY -- with dialogue on the side.
<patric> Yes, JL.. A conversation for us for later.. How to depict that dialog....
<MaryLou> Sorry, closed the wrong window.
<patric> No worries.. :) I don't know about sing. But at least they can hold a note. :D
<JL`> Any comments on the Dushau project?
<Karen> What I can see (too slow to hold everyone else up) is your usual fantastic work. I'll look later when I have time to enjoy it.
<MTZ> sigh, covers are VERY demanding!
<JL`> Carry a tune!
<patric> Not a worry, Karen... Thanks for trying. I, for one, am very excited about the Dushau project.
<JL`> I think next we'll do the STOCK AWARDS -- then vote on individual awards.
<MTZ> using photoshop csx?
<patric> Not at all, Margaret. Can't afford it. :)
<JL`> I'm jumping out of my SKIN about the Dushau project. But it's one of many on my desk this year.
* Karen smiles. "You'll get your feedback later. Post them on a site where I can FTP them... I HAVE to find a way to budget for high speed.
<Midge> I'll look later too. Patric. Afraid I'll lose both chatrooms looking now.
<Lexie13> same here
<JL`> OK folks -- e-mail Karen your comments for the final log.
<JL`> log
<MTZ> um, they are selling cs3 pshotoshop for $179. sigh, still too much for me.
<Karen> That will work. E-mail me the comments.
<JL`> OK next topic.
<Karen> Impressive, what I did see.
<patric> Hmm.. Might have to not eat again (too fat already) for that price. What's the catch?
<MTZ> let me get the URL for you, Patric
<patric> Thank you...
<patric> Looking....
<Anne> Congratulations to all of the stock winners, You certainly deserve all you are given considering all the work you've done. And it's amazing, professional grade and in some cases ground breaking work.
<patric> Hmm.. how long has it been on a three day sale? And am I wrong to be nervous when the English is ... foreign?
<Karen> Anyone can speak in the business meeting now.... start nominating.
[Editor comment: I'll make these award definitions into links one of these years.
         If you come here anytime after January, and I haven't done it, please nag: @ ]

<JL`> Tech-ton --- people who have benefited Sime~Gen fandom by the creation and/or application
<JL`> of new software and on--line tools. Nager Award This award is given to those who have given emotional support to others, guiding them through rough times or just generally "being there" when needed. Out-Territory award. This award is given to those whose non-Simegen related sites bring visitors to the domain.
<patric> Digen award, for surviving my bizarre schedule? lol.
<MTZ> not sure, Patric. my budget is so tight right now all I can do is wish
<JL`> Risa Tigue Gen (and Sime) Re-Use Award --- This award honors Sime/Gen fans who have given their old computer systems to further the cause of other Sime/Gen fans' gaining e-mail and Web access, and also the recipients of those computers for giving email and the Web a game try and, well, for just being themselves! Karen Award Created in 2002, this award for Creating Foundations is awarded to those individuals or organizations who have helped to create the Sime-Gen fan universe or, who have proven indispensable in growing and maintaining the Simegen domain Nominations are now open for the Digen Award. Each award can have multiple winners, and we do not have to award every award this year.
<patric> Thanks for the link. I will explore it further and let you know.... Such as cost to upgrade from 3 to 4, and for me, whether its worth it at all as compared to Corel 12 which I already have.
<Karen> There are other awards which we may or may not give out this year, too.
<JL`> Say AYE in the other room.
<Anne> There was an award we invented a while ago based on one of Patric's typos
<JL`> How many actual individuals are we? I see 10 of us here.
<Karen> 12 in the other room... of which 11 are NOT me. I'm listed twice in each room.
<Seanara> Karen, aren't you Karen and Karen2?
<Karen> Yes.
<Seanara> Sure you can vote for yourself, surely? <amused look>
* Karen smiles at Seanara and gives her one of my "growls."
<MaryLou> Maybe Karen can vote for Karen2 and vice versa?
* Seanara laughs.
<Karen> I don't think so, Mary Lou. ~~mirth~~
<JL`> Midge that nomination was out of order, do it over.
* patric clings to Karen as we bow out thanks and appreciation for your consideration. :D
<Karen> "She did list it later...." Karen smiles at Patric. I hope your Digen award is larger than mine, since you do more than I do.
<JL`> Vote please. Do I hear any nays?
<patric> Don't know. Haven't made the new ones yet. I am so far behind...
<Karen> The award pages need updating, but that's low on the list.
<patric> Perhaps the new awards will appear in the Dushau project.... Hmm... A House crest over the audience, maybe?
<Lexie13> Someone was eager a few days ago to see the Borderlands crew get some sort of award, but those of us who are here aren't gonna nominate ourselves.
<JL`> Scroll back for my list of Award we often give out and see if you want to nominate.
<Karen> Award description --- Karen Award Created in 2002, this award for Creating Foundations is awarded to those individuals or organizations who have helped to create the Sime~Gen fan universe or, who have proven indispensable in growing and maintaining the Simegen domain.
* patric thinks about the Nager award to everyone on the lists who handled all the recent fandom deaths.
<Seanara> Surely Karen should get one of those. :)
<JL`> Yes, I think Borderlands deserves RECOGNITION too.
<Karen> I got the first one in 2002, thanks, very much....
<MTZ> lol, Patric
<Karen> Might be appropriate for Borderlands, too.
<JL`> Vote on Margaret.
<patric> Multitasking has its price. Head says "Margaret" fingers type "karen". Yeesh.
<Karen> Done that often enough, Patric. :-D
<patric> From the sound, Borderlands gets the Karen award.
<MTZ> thank you all
<patric> Got a note from Kaires. she can't log on for some reason, is trying.
<Karen> Might be her Vista capable computer....
<JL`> What for Borderlands then? And yes, the Nager might be appropriate for the In Memoriam efforts.
<MTZ> probably, Karen. we have an editor who has been regretting Vista for a year
<patric> Karen award for Borderlands. Doesn't expand the domain per se, but it DOES expand the simegen universe...
<Karen> That's why THIS editor is using XP when her new computers come home. Wanted them to both be XP and not Vista. Insisted on it.
<JL`> E-mail Kaires to email in her report. Please. Pretty please? Also report on the convention parties.
<Anne> I'd vote but I haven't the faintest notion of what you're talking about.
<Karen> The Sime~Gen Role Playing game currently running is Borderlands.
<JL`> Can anyone list all the Borderlands writers/contributors?
<Karen> Might be able to find them on their website.
<MTZ> like a unit commendation the Borderlands crew
<Karen> Just give it to the role players as a whole.
<JL`> I need the URL for Borderlands.
<Anne> Well, I'll abstain out of ignorance
<Karen> Wait... I have it.
<Midge> Anne. vote anyway, it's fun!
<JL`> I'm waiting for Karen to come up with the URL.
<JL`> I don't think we give those folks enough CREDIT for what they've created.
<Seanara> I don't know half the nominees or what they've been doing, but I'm voting anyway. ~~mirth~~
<MaryLou> My mother-in-law just called. She has a peregrine falcon hanging out in her back yard.
<Lexie13> Beverly Erlebacher, John Cowan, Mary Lou Mendum, M. Alexis Pakulak, and recently added Flora....
<Midge> Cool!
<Karen> Wow about the falcon... they love heights.
<Lexie13> um, mlm, what's the correct spelling of Flora's last name
<Karen> Flora Raynor....
<MaryLou> You're asking ME to spell something?
<JL`> Karen just won another Karen award. THANK YOU.
<Anne> That's amazing.
<JL`> I need more votes.
<Anne> Last time I saw a falcon was in Scotland. And it was tethered.
<Seanara> Did Karen just win another Karen award? I didn't see it in the nominations.
<MaryLou> Lexie and I have to abstain, so we're out of the vote.
<patric> This from Kaires, via Google chat: Vrykalak: Haven't done a formal report, but I will send an e-mail with notes.
<Karen> I did not... what Karen award for finding a URL? Don't need that. The falcons used to nest on one of the Atlantic City casinos... sometimes if you knew someone you could go into the suite to see them through the window. We can post Kaires' report....
<patric> Karen QUALIFIED for another Karen award, which should be voted on in the NEXT chat. :)
<JL`> There did I get that right?
<Karen> Yes, next year... that URL was found for 2009 not 2008. JL -- ask Kaires for her report.
<MTZ> hi kaires
<Seanara> Hi, Kaires.
<JL`> Patric is right -- that's her start on 2009 (well, and all the rest she's done for this chat)
<Karen> Welcome, Kaires.
<MaryLou> Falcons are not supposed to live in Redding, or hang out in suburban back yards, so this is big.
<JL`> Kaires made it!
<MaryLou> Hi, Kaires!
<Midge> Hi Kaires!
<JL`> Reposted the last award for Kaires to see.
<patric> Certainly not peregrines!
<Karen> I think falcons hanging out in the middle of Atlantic City, NJ is rather odd, too.
<JL`> OK are there any other nominations for other awards? If not we can party!
<Karen> Kaires needs to do her report!
<Midge> Nager and Out-Territory
<JL`> Oh, wait, Ronnie Bob.
<Karen> Award description --- Nager Award This award is given to those who have given emotional support to others, guiding them through rough times or just generally "being there" when needed.
<MaryLou> Folks, I've got to go. We've got company arriving in fifteen minutes.
<Karen> Nomination description ---- Out-Territory award. This award is given to those whose non-Simegen related sites bring visitors to the domain.
<JL`> Voting on Ronnie Bob.
<Karen> Take care, Mary Lou. Love to you both.
<MaryLou> Goodbye!
<patric> No worries MLM. Thanks for coming!
<JL`> Good to see you MaryLou
<Midge> Can I nominate Harriet Klausner for Out-Territory?
<Karen> I don't see why you can't.... but does she bring people to the domain?
<Kaires> Uh, hi. I've been struggling for an hour to get here. Patrick fixed me up fast. Has he gotten any awards yet?
* patric laughs.. It's all good, Kaires...
<Seanara> Yes, a Digen...
<Karen> Yes...he's received awards.... You later have to give your report.
<Midge> 142 of this year's reviews are hers
<Seanara> wow!
<patric> I'd say that brings people to the domain. heh
<Karen> Nominate her when next award is offered.
<JL`> Next nomination?
<Karen> Go ahead, Midge.
* patric nudges Midge...
<Seanara> Tech-Ton for Patric?
<Karen> Award criteria --- Out-Territory award. This award is given to those whose non-Simegen related sites bring visitors to the domain.
<Seanara> Anyone who writes 142 reviews in a year deserves a medal as well as an award!
<MTZ> and how!
<Midge> She carried the Reviews department last year
<Karen> Harriet is a professional reviewer, though. I've seen her reviews elsewhere.
<patric> Everywhere, actually.
<Midge> Everywhere
<JL`> Any further nominations?
<patric> Tech-Ton = server stuff?
<Karen> Just sent a DCC, but if our website, I don't think that works.
<Karen> Tech-ton --- people who have benefited Sime~Gen fandom by the creation and/or application of new software and on-line tools.
<patric> Oh. That was last year. Didn't do anything new except for the Dushau stuff so far.
<JL`> Voting on Patric for the Tech-ton. Well! That does it.
<Karen> We're talking for 2008 year....
<patric> after the voting, ask in chat, Karen? You can edit it later...
<Karen> There, done that.
<patric> Thankee sai.
<JL`> Any further nominations?
<patric> None from me, thanks.
<Midge> I'm done
<Kaires> Has Karen gotten any awards yet...for putting up with me and the rest of us for another year?
<Midge> Digen
<Karen> I got another Digen.
<Kaires> Cool!
<patric> Except I will give a MEDAL to anyone who can keep me from typing two caps in a row...
<Karen> Even I have that fault.
* patric wonders if we should have a new address for stories so they don't get trapped in spam filters...
<Karen> No.... made a filter at G-mail just for it. One time deal for the recollections.
<patric> Not your address.. the simegen@ one...
<Kaires> I really have to write some stuff. It was such a thrill to find the online Sime~Gen to the other fans, read the stories...and finally be able to contribute a bit to keeping it going. Someone, please nag me to write about it.
<Karen> I've nagged you about other things... one thing at a time.
<JL`> I need a motion to adjourn
<Anne> How about the in-out-in-out territory award to Jacqueline for getting lost giving me a tour of Chandler.
<Midge> I met Jacqueline in 1987
<Karen> So nominate her for it, Anne.
<Karen> Midge...write that to me later, in an e-mail for the recollections.
<Midge> Okay
<patric> We have door prizes?
<Karen> Sometimes at the cons, we give away zines and books....
<JL`> At convention parties that Kaires runs, yes, we have door prizes.
<patric> Oh sweet! Dushau prints? hehe
<JL`> Anne is tattling on me.
<Karen> I almost wrote "sime kind."
<Kaires> I just got a 1st edition hardcover of RenSime
<Lexie13> *grin*, karen... "Sime kind"
<JL`> Patric is thinking ARTWORK. I love it.
<Karen> I do that mistyping a lot.
<patric> In that case, I third it as well.. JL and I always go in circles...
<Karen> I love his artwork, too.
<Kaires> Also, Karen helped me get a battered copy of "City of a Million Legends" autographed to Andre Norton. I just haven't gotten around to sending it
<JL`> Anyone want to get the nomination phrased for us?
<Karen> Kaires, I thought you HAD a HC of first edition of renSime?
<patric> I thought the in out in out award WAS the yo yo award...
<Karen> I had that other one here at home....but sent it elsewhere, remember?
<Anne> it is
<JL`> No, the Golden Yo-Yo is an award for doing things over and over -- and boy have I been driving around in circles here.
<Kaires> Maybe. now I have another one. (Or was that the one we sent to the lady who originally bought CML?)
<Midge> Silver YoYo?
<Karen> The one I had we sent to the woman for CML
<MTZ> sigh, what I want is e-versions I can read on my eBookwise
<patric> I want audio versions...
<JL`> Well, maybe Margaret, you'll end up publishing the e-versions.
<Kaires> Yeh! audio versions!
<JL`> But Molt Brother and City are in e-book on Fictionwise. Nothing else of mine is, though.
<MTZ> all SimeGen, all Dushau, all the Molt Brother, all Jean's Savage Empire, even the Kerns duo
<Karen> New books that Meisha Merlin should have pubbed, too.
<MTZ> they are? hmm, brb
<Kaires> I spend at least 20 hours a month driving out in the desert. I love audio books.
<patric> And Karen will move it accordingly...
* Karen smiles. "Like Minds."
* patric grins...
<JL`> Yes, Karen -- thanks for the editing or maybe time-traveling!
<Karen> Can't use e-books and drive. No longer can manage even the radio and driving. Besides, my old van has a cassette player....
<patric> It was fine, Kaires. Thank you..
<Karen> Time travel... won't get me to visit you.... besides, I have no place to put a TARDIS. Con presence at Darkover is pitiful.... only 3 diehards go ---
<MTZ> hah. got em in my cart
<Karen> Ronnie Bob and Margaret Carter are the only two this year.
<Kaires> I've been ordered to return to the Hi--Desert Mensa New Years Party. So I'll have to sign off now. Thanks, again, Patric, for bringing me aboard (after almost an hour of struggling).
<Karen> Get in touch with me, Karies. Have a great time.
<Lexie13> ah, a fellow Mensan
<patric> Welcome Kaires... Holler earlier, yeah?
<Seanara> Karen, it is pitiful because, candidly, now that JL no longer attends Darkovercon and we have no real Faith Day celebration...
<Karen> I know that.
<Seanara> there's nothing much to attend for.
<Lexie13> have fun at your party, Kaires
<JL`> OK, someone mentioned HELPING WITH PUBLICITY. Is that offer still open?
<MTZ> that was Donna. She hasn't made it over here yet
<patric> Donna, who hasn't made it back here yet. lol.
<Kaires> Karen, send me the files when you make them beautiful, and I'll post them by tomorrow.
<JL`> Oh, she's trying to switch rooms.
<Anne> Is it too early to talk about Worldcon for 2009
<MTZ> hi Eliza
<Lexie13> there's something I wasn't ready to talk about at the time, but am now...
<Anne> Hi Eliza
<Eliza> hello everyone :) We slept in!
<Midge> Hi Eliza
<JL`> Eliza -- oh, the time-gap to Australia must have thrown you off. We just adjourned the business meeting. This is party time. Any topics are open.
<Lexie13> JL, you'll remember my mother, Jeannette Pakulak, as one of your earliest and most enthusiastic fans?
<patric> Hello Eliza.....
<Karen> Right now, Lexie, this room is being logged to be posted to the web.
<JL`> Oh, yes Lexie had news. Jeanette I do remember. Of course I do!
<Kaires> Oh, I'm planning a party at WesterCon. Artist guest of honor is Todd Lockwood, who created the wonderful cover for The Unity Trilogy...and, of course, it's in JL's backyard (at that same place where we met when I first showed off the starred-cross jewelry).
<Lexie13> She died March 16th, 2008, age 84
<Laurrain1> Mike and I will be at Westercon
<JL`> Yes, I do intend to be at Westercon July 2009
<Seanara> I am so sorry, Lexie, about your mom.
<Karen> Oh, Lexie, I am so sorry to hear about that...
<JL`> 84!!! She's gone????
<Kaires> Now I'm REALLY going away. Happy New Year everyone.
<Lexie13> yes, JL.
<Eliza> bye Kaires!
<JL`> I'm so sorry to hear that. Really, that's so sad.
<patric> Cheers Kaires...!
<Seanara> bye, Kaires
<JL`> Bye Kaires
<Karen> bye Kaires
<Midge> Condolences, Lexie
<JL`> When did that happen Lexie?
<Eliza> Westercon -- where is that held?
<JL`> Phoenix this year.
<Laurrain1> Mesa
<Karen> Arizona... Eliza's in AUSTRALIA
<JL`> Well, yes Mesa which is a suburb of Phoenix Arizona but Eliza is in Australia.
<Eliza> my art goes to cons, but not that one, I just checked the list
<Lexie13> March 16th. I was barely starting to recover from my pneumonia at the time, so didn't really deal with it enough to talk about it at the time.
<Laurrain1> The closest Westercon got to Australia was Honolulu
<Eliza> lol
<JL`> Eliza may not have heard that I moved from New York to Arizona 7 years ago.
<Donna> Ah I figured it out at last!!!
<Eliza> do you like it JL?
<Karen> Hi, donna.
<MTZ> yay, Donna made it
<Eliza> Zoe is on her way
<Midge> Hi. Donna!
<Donna> Wasn't easy, but I did it!
<JL`> Yes, I love it in this part of AZ -- it gets bloody hot, but it never SNOWS (a little frost on the grass the other day though) In northern AZ, it does snow and ice, too.
<Donna> It was 60 two days ago in Boston, and 11 last night. Go figure.
<Midge> Lol, Patric had to hone me to help me get logged in.
<JL`> Donna -- WOW, you're here.
<Karen> Same weather as Donna's in Maryland this week.
<Donna> Or I'm in a parallel universe.
<Anne> Sorry to hear about your mother Lexie.
<patric> WB Donna!
<JL`> Yes, I saw the odd weather in the Northeast --- Anne's going back to NY tomorrow.
<Donna> Tenk u veddy much.
<Eliza> never snows here either! It was 35C yesterday, with awful humidity
<Donna> Can we do a tribute page to Majel Barrett?
<Eliza> JL, we bred our own mutant!
<Laurrain1> We got a little snow in the Tucson area, too.
<Seanara> JL, I am looking forward to reading your review of The Book of Names. I'm very curious to hear what you think of it.
<JL`> Gee everyone's talking to me and I don't know who to answer first.
<Eliza> did Majel pass away?????
<Anne> Yes
<Donna> I feel very badly that Majel died. I loved her work.
<Eliza> oh my God
<MTZ> just recently
<Seanara> Sorry... ~~apologetic~~
<Donna> I have tons of articles about her career.
<Midge> Donna, I think Karen has done or is doing a tribute for Mama Majel. Yes, Karen?
<JL`> Let's see -- Majel --- we'd need a volunteer to do a page for Majel. We could put it in our Star Trek section.
<Donna> Tell me what to do and I'll help.
<Karen> I can do one for Majel... need a couple photos, and would welcome the help. We have one for Jimmy Doohan there. I need to find the URL
<Donna> As I said, I have many, many scanned articles about her career.
<JL`> Eliza I guess you rejoined the List just after the Majel news hit.
<Midge> I've met Majel several times at ST conventions. Wonderful lady.
<Eliza> only a few days ago JL
<JL`> Copyright is a big problem with scanned articles.
<Donna> The voice of the computer.
<Karen> So did I. Lots of stories I can tell about her.
<JL`> Yes, indeed Majel was a LIGHT for all of Trek, not just as Nurse Chapel. Someone fetch Zoe up here?
<Donna> Regarding copyright, I can write up summaries of those articles and cite them.
<Karen> Let me find the URL of the Trek site.
<patric> OR down here, depending on your window setup. heh
<MTZ> zoe just joined #sgchat
<Donna> Loved Majel as Lwaxana Troi.
<JL`> Donna, if you could do that, we could post that on the section.
<Midge> I've a good story about Mark Lenard, too, if we want to add a tribute for him.
<JL`> Ah, Hi --- I don't see Zoe.
<Donna> I can write up a little tribute essay. Tell me to whom I send it.
<MTZ> sigh, and left
<Karen> Patric, I may need a new password for that area. Send things to me, Donna.
<Donna> I can do that.
<patric> You will. Let me know when and where... later.
<JL`> Patric can get you access --- but I think you already have it one way or another.
<patric> I have a tech scout for a shoot tomorrow.
<MTZ> and rejoined
<Karen> I'll drop you a note in a couple days, Patric.
<Donna> I can't stay long but I do wanna try to help with publicity.
<MTZ> hi zoe
<Eliza> there she is
<Anne> Hi Zoe
<Midge> Hi Zoe
<JL`> Donna, I want to hear everything you have to say on publicity because that's going to be our next push.
<patric> Then you need to talk to Donna about it now, JL. Please.
<zoe1> Hello, I finally made it
<MTZ> yes
<JL`> After we get some kind of PDF download posted with a shopping cart, we need to get the word out that it exists.
<Donna> I may need to say it back on the sime-gen list, or to you off-list.
<JL`> Zoe! Hi!
<Karen> Off list might be appropriate....
<patric> Donna. Email her directly first. Exactly. :)
<Donna> Will do. She's long been one of my heroes.
<Karen> Again, like minds.
<JL`> Donna -- however you want to discuss it, I'm open.
<zoe1> it has been many years since I have been here
<Karen> Donna, anything you want to do for tributes, write me directly, too.
<Donna> I'd do it now, but am on a deadline to finish 3 articles (my 4th book just came out).
<JL`> Patric is about to produce DUSHAU in images and we will put that in /romance/ -- a section long dormant.
<patric> Send it to us for review!
<Donna> I'll do the Majel thing tonight.
<zoe1> Eliza just told me that is sad news
<MTZ> what genre
<Donna> I can't send my book for review-- I write non-fiction reference books, and this one isn't about sime-gen!
<Karen> Send it to me at one of my addresses... do you have them?
<JL`> We need to distribute information about all that, the 7 or so volumes for download and Patric's webisodes.
<Eliza> silly Firefox
<Donna> I have your AOL address. Is there a better one?
<patric> We review everything though. Even non simegen stuff. :)
<Midge> Truly!!!
<Laurrain1> And even non-fiction
<patric> Worse that can happen is that no one is capable of reviewing it, but we wont know if we don't see it..
<Donna> This one is a history of talk shows.
<JL`> Donna -- yes, the reviews section has grown since you looked last. We have spots for non-fic as well.
<Karen> Oh, that may be fun to read....
<MTZ> reference for what
<Midge> Sounds like fun, Donna
<Laurrain1> Midge, sorry about not getting to the books I said I'd review. Building a house has turned out to take a lot more time than I expected.
<JL`> History of Talk Shows ---- Wow. Great concept. Do be sure we see it.
<Donna> I am a media historian. My third book was a history of women in broadcasting.
<Karen> Donna, do you have my e-dresses?
<patric> Oh boy Donna... We have got to talk someday..
<Midge> That's okay, Laurraine. I'll have to check with Alice about status anyway.
<Donna> I've been in broadcasting and print for over 30 years.
<MTZ> oh wow
<JL`> Donna -- haven't you met Patric offlist yet?
<Donna> And I've lurked on sime-gen for ages. Never met Patric yet.
<patric> Hmm.. I've been in film and such for 18.. heh
<JL`> He's absolutely bloody amazing with all the different things he does.
<Donna> We may know each other and not realize it.
<Karen> We need to send her our e-dresses off list and off of this log.
<Donna> I've been on radio and in print journalism for a long time.
<patric> Erm. I don't lurk the lists though...
<Midge> Patric's in the OR area
* patric grins. Close enough...
<Donna> And I used to be a publicist. I'm Boston based, but will go anywhere to make an honest dollar!!!
<Eliza> our boiled eggs are done, bb soon
<JL`> Yes, I remember Donna, and so anything you have to say about "getting the word out" will definitely fall on open ears keenly tuned to your voice.
<Donna> I'm still on the sime-gen list. Or go to my website at and there is a jump to e-mail me.
<Karen> I may go soon, and stop logging. I've been here 4 hours.
<patric> I will take a look, Donna. Thanks...
<Donna> I used to contribute to the list a lot, but had tons of health problems and had to reduce my time on lists.
<patric> No worries Midge...
<JL`> Publicist is a "type" of thinking, a style of looking at the world, that is totally foreign to my brain. That's why I value such people so highly.
<Donna> Well, it's a more difficult skill these days, thanks to fewer newspapers and magazines...
<MTZ> impressive bio!!!
<Karen> I've done publicity for some groups, but I likely don't have Donna's skills for certain.
<JL`> You're right -- we'd been discussing the changes in the world and the speed of change just before the meeting began.
<Donna> I've gotten myself on PBS, NPR, ABC Nightline, and in many, many major newspapers.
* patric has to idle for a bit. Logging continues...
<Karen> Karen's gonna leave... Patric, send me the log, of this if you want. Bye all....
<Donna> I have to go, too.
<JL`> bye Karen -- thank you!
<Midge> Bye Karen
<Lexie13> bye, Karen
<MTZ> bye karen
<Donna> JL and Karen, I'll be in touch, or you contact me either way.
<MTZ> bye donna
<Karen> Thanks... will drop you a note Donna.
<Midge> Bye, Donna
<JL`> bye Donna -- thank you for coming!
<Karen> Happy Year's turning, everyone. Bye
<Donna> Love to you all.
<JL`> Wasn't that an interesting meeting?
<Midge> Sure was
<MTZ> yes
<JL`> I think we're about done --- have I answered everyone? Did I forget anything?
<Seanara> No..
<MTZ> and lucky one too
<Seanara> Book of Names.
<MTZ> I'll email you about the a-store stuff, JL
<JL`> Oh, yes --- did I list that BOOK OF NAMES in my review column yet?
<Seanara> I'm looking forward to seeing your review of it; am very curious about what you think of it? Yes, February.
<JL`> Margaret, good -- do email me directly on a-store etc.
<Seanara> February 2009.
<JL`> I don't know that I AM reviewing it unless you saw it listed.Ah, OK if it's listed for February, then that's when it'll post. E-mail me a reminder. I try to post them about the middle of the month, but sometimes forget for 3 months in a row.
<Seanara> If I remember.
<JL`> You can get it directly on if you want to dig into their site, and they post on the 1st of the month. They PAY for the column, so I can't step on their toes.Actually, that brings up another topic I've been investigating. FEEDS. I have feeddemon installed now, and lots of website are set up as feeds.
<Midge> You mean like rss?
<JL`> Yes, like rss ---- there are several of them, and rss is a brand of sorts.
<Seanara> What is RSS? I'm not sure I understand it.
<JL`> I haven't looked lately, but I'll bet lightworks is set up as a feed and you could subscribe to their site to get my reviews.
<Midge> Really Simple Syndication
<JL`> Also you can "search" the "feeds" on my name, and get notified whenever I post anything.
<Seanara> Right, but what is it and how does it work?
<patric> Seanara...
* Seanara listens.
<Midge> Beats me, Seanara, I just use rss on one of my websites. Midge listens too
<JL`> Seanara --- THAT is what I've been investigating "what is it and how does it work" and I've only just barely got the glimmerings of a notion of it. But I've found my name in all kinds of odd places.
* Seanara is clueless about what this new tech thing is.
<patric> Think of it as a kind of specialized browser that gathers content based on links you give it. It collects, aggregates, and categorizes content (depending on the reader) and gives it to you as a list of web pages, usually stuff that's changed since last visit, etc.
* Seanara is sort of following the description, but not entirely.
<patric> RSS links are specifically coded pages that the reader reads, and uses the information it finds to help itself process the content. More simply, its a thing that checks pages, says "Hey! Here's new stuff! Wanna see it?" on an automatic basis.
<Seanara> But surely you could just visit the web pages on your own and see what's changed?
<Midge> I "subscribe" to several rss news media on one of my websites. The content appears magically on my website pages.
<patric> Sure can. But can YOU remember all the hundreds of page you have seen, might have been interested in and go back to over the YEARS?
<Seanara> Well, no, but if there's an immense amount of new information on a great many websites, how would anyone be able to keep up with it?
<MTZ> consider trying to weed and organize your favorites
<Laurrain1> I organize all my bookmarks. There are those I go to every day, others I visit every other day, and so forth.
<patric> I know I can't. Feed readers do it for me... Especially for things like new installed programs, that I ONLY want to hear from when there is an upgrade... RSS is great for that else I will forget, OR waste time CHECKING for new stuff...
<Seanara> What do you have to do to get it?
<patric> You handle all the info by reading only what's new, and let IT do the checking for new stuff in the background. Just download it. There are several varieties available.
<JL`> It kind of replaces the search engine, in a way. You set up a "search" and it keeps repeating that search and yielding up URLs with what you're looking for.
<patric> JL and I have feed demon. Primarily so we can stumble along with it together.
<Seanara> I see. I think. ~~thoughtful~~
<JL`> Or you can use GOOGLE's built in feed reader.
<patric> Yes, that's another use for it.
<JL`> Then you don't have to download anything.
<Seanara> Google has a feed reader? What is that?
<JL`> If you have a Google email address, you find READER in the top bar of links, click and follow the directions.
<Seanara> Nope.
<patric> Same concept, only the data is stored on their servers... Get one. Quite useful. Best spam filters anywhere.
<Seanara> I don't trust g-mail since I heard stuff stays on their servers forever.
<Midge> Try and search "rss"/ They have several feeds available to subscribe to, and info on how to use them
<patric> Nods. Thought the same way, but what do I have to hide?
* Seanara shrugs. She is a private person by nature.
<patric> And at LEAST Google is up front about it. Not sneaky like MSN, or Yahoo.
<Seanara> Well, there is that.
<patric> As am I... And I survived.
<patric> Still, there are other options besides Google.
<Seanara> ~~appreciative~~
<JL`> that's the one someone on LinkedIn recommended -- you download the software, then stuff only stays on your computer.
<patric> As far as you KNOW.. lol
<Eliza> Seanara -- you role play?
<Seanara> Ah... I see. I tend to be leery of downloading software...
<Midge> Seanara. if you want. checkout and see how rss feeds at to my content.
<Seanara> Many years ago, Eliza. Thanks, Midge, JL for the URLs.
<JL`> That's why I got the recommendation from the techie crowd on LinkedIn --- there's lots and lots of these things around. Researched hard and decided on this one, and it works really NICELY. Midge, actually what we're talking about here is something a little different.It's more PRIVATE. This thing lets you subscribe to those websites that put data onto your website, but without the website in between.
<Midge> So I gathered. I'm an infant in rss and feeds too.
<Eliza> Seanara, I've msg you :)
<JL`> Like most things with computers, you can't EXPLAIN it in English. You have to do it with your own hands. I still don't "get it" totally.
<Seanara> Oh. I'm sorry, Eliza. I didn't see it.
<Midge> It's magic in the Clarkean sense.
<Eliza> np :)
<JL`> But as I said, there are some nifty things you can do with feeds. And Patric noted one use is keeping up on updates. And feeds are the new publicity tool. People don't want to subscribe to Lists and Newsletters so much -- or do anything with e-mail because of the spam. And as Patric noted, Feeds are a spam dodge, as is social-networking.
<patric> One of many, actually. But they've been around for so long that they are more of a ... What, must have, to keep up with the publicity.
<JL`> People today are dodging out of the very public world of the internet and building their own circles and realms of interest with walls around them.
<patric> Exactly. Feeds are the ultimate lurker tool.
<Midge> I must learn more about this. Sounds useful
<Seanara> Will have to look into them, too.
<JL`> Then there's the blogosphere. I learned so much about that --- and what I learned is that I don't know diddly.
<patric> Which is where feeds almost become essential.
<JL`> But blogs are RANKED by various websites for people, by how many people SUBSCRIBE TO THE BLOG'S FEED!!!!
<Midge> Dang! I still mostly Google and surf!
<JL`> It's a score keeping method. So that's how you become a popular blogger --- having people subscribe to your feed. There's too. And there's something called blogdumps
<patric> nods.. and strongly suspects that page hits will be far surpassed in value by feed subscriptions one day .
<Eliza> I'm off as well! Nice to catch up with you all. See you on the list :)
<JL`> I just found that one today.
<patric> Cheers Eliza...
<Seanara> Night, Eliza.
<patric> Morning, for her.
<Midge> Thanks for all the URLS. I'm copying them as they get mentioned.
<MTZ> fascinating stuff
<JL`> And there's (I think I spelled that right) that specializes in "rating" "popular" blogs, but those who subscribe to your blog have to be members of the technorati website (doesn't cost anything, just fill out a form).
<patric> Which gets killed by the privacy issue of you are honest... :)
<Anne> I'm not a blogger, avoid them at all costs and I know Jacqueline will come down on my head for this but I really don't like any of the blogs I've ever had to read.
<JL`> Anyway, all this feeds and blogs and blogosphere ratings, and so on is connected to publicity.
<Laurrain1> The blogs I follow are all physics or astrophysics ones.
<JL`> Well, Anne doesn't read my blog posts.
<patric> True. Most personal blogs are angst filled twaddle. But the prof blogs are usually pretty good.
<JL`> Today the anchors on TV news all blog.
<Midge> I like the anthropology ones
<Seanara> I've rarely read any blog entry. I have enough trouble trying to keep up with my e-mail. ;)
<JL`> But basically, blogs are editorials, built for exchanging opinions with your readers.
<Anne> Hence why I don't read them.
<JL`> It's a web 2.0 device --- a method of using the internet for direct one-on-one interaction.
<Laurrain1> Mike has a blog up about our home building process.
<patric> Or in my case, IMAGE blogs, built to keep clients apprised of progress...
<Lexie13> *sigh* I remember when "blog" was something you weren't sure you wanted to drink. Now they're something you're not sure you want to read.
<Anne> My readers usually write letters to the editor or call me, or come up to me at events.
<MTZ> sometimes they become communities. like Suzette Haden Elgin's LJ as ozarque
* Seanara laughs at Lexie's comment. ~~mirth~~
<JL`> Yes, Patric's use of the blogs is fascinating. He posts images of things he's building as he progresses and it's a whole textbook in how things are made.
<Midge> The blogs on can be fun. I've posted to several. And Pres-elect Obama has one on where they actually listen to what voters suggest.
<JL`> Patric's business is creating ILLUSION -- and I just love watching him work up something so REAL you believe it.
* patric grins. That's because I've biased you, Jacqueline.. :)
<Midge> Not biased, enthralled!!!
<JL`> They hire people to TABULATE what people post to those big political blogs. Nobody who's actually WORKING reads them, except unless some secretary excerpts something interesting.
<JL`> Enthralled about covers it. Which is why Anne doesn't read blogs --- she works.
<patric> grins wider...
<Midge> True, JL, but it's nice to be able to express my opinions.
<MTZ> talent is always enthralling
<JL`> Ah, you've HIT ON IT MIDGE. Brilliant.
<Anne> Because of my work, I can't express my opinion.
<JL`> The whole thing about blogs is the same thing behind HAM RADIO -- people LOVE TO EXPRESS THEIR OWN OPINIONS. Cater to that and get rich. En masse humanity is so busy expressing, they rarely LISTEN.
<Seanara> What's that old adage: Opinions are like nether orifices -- everybody's got one.
<Midge> Now there's an idea for monetizing the domain!
<Anne> Hence Reality shows, Oprah, ad Infinitum.
<patric> Oh gods no.. Anything but that, Midge. *I* would have to maintain it....
<Midge> Most "reality: shows aren't real
<Lexie13> a nice hardbound diary or journal is more satisfying, and that way you know exactly how many people are{n't} reading it
<patric> And trust me when I say I am too deeply cynical to be able to withstand all those opinions...
<JL`> Patric found this web page (blog) this morning with a list of the bigger events in social networking this last year, and it noted how many tens of millions of dollars are being poured into these interactive domains. HAS NO MONEY to compete with those sites. Hence we have to figure out how to use them (not abuse; use).
<patric> Lexie.. Its sphere of influence is too small though. Fine when social borders were defined by back yards.
<Midge> Who says you have to TRUST them? Get paid for being an unhearing ear
<JL`> Midge is also right that "reality shows" aren't real, any more that "True Confessions" were ever true.
patric> No, no... Trust ME that I will go bonkers if I have to read any of the whining. heheh
<Lexie13> my point exactly. have people forgotten how to keep private angst PRIVATE?
<patric> Of course not. But Nowadays, they see no NEED to keep it private.
<Anne> Now they get paid for airing their laundry
<patric> You just dated yourself, Lexie...
<Seanara> I'm afraid that's what it seems like, Lexie. I wouldn't dream of putting a fraction of the stuff online that people put on social networking sites.
<Midge> Just pickin' on you. Patric. Your leg fall off in my hand?
<JL`> Anne's right --- people make money off the ads on their blogs and emote without limits.
<patric> Nope! Just came out a range of forums looking for a puzzle solution.
<JL`> The hotter the emotion, the more visitors, the more money from ads.Of course WE are advertising driven, too.
<patric> And they do it for the EXACT same reason TV news is so sensational...
<Anne> My other bugaboo
<patric> To draw in readers and MAKE money...
<JL`> Yes, drivel SELLS.
<Midge> The news media seem to create more bugaboo news than they report, these days.
<JL`> I'd like to figure out how to reverse that trend.
<patric> Not really. But angst driven, emotionalyl charged (contrived usually) drivel sells... Look at the National Enquirer for a prime example...
<Seanara> Is it because people have no lives of their own?
<JL`> The preference is leaning toward entertainment rather than information.
<patric> People KNOW its fake, but they still buy it.
<Anne> It's really easy, make information interesting.
<JL`> Anne hit it again -- square on.
<patric> Oh Seanara... Its more that they want to see OTHER people with problems worse than theirs...
<Midge> It's more like many people want to escape the humdrum lives they do have
<JL`> The whole world's a soap opera.
* Seanara shakes her head. ~~resigned amusement~~ Schadenfreude.
* JL` ~~~WAIL~~~
<Midge> Shakespeare said it best
<patric> Be glad you won't live long enough to see it get REALLY bad...
<Anne> Actually, people don't have the confidence in themselves that they can appreciate how not hum drum life can be.
<patric> The cliche says it best. The grass is always greener....
<JL`> Anyway, I will continue for a while more reviewing --- because I'm analyzing what is behind all the stuff I review.
<Midge> It's hard to maintain hope when the rent's due and the baby's hungry
<Seanara> Really bad? I'd think it was really bad before electricity, anesthesia and modern plumbing, Patric. ;-)
<JL`> And I'll probably write more fiction. I have so many ideas cooking.
<patric> In one form or another, that's likely the main reason why people read that drivel.
<Anne> But it's not hope that anyone has to maintain.
<JL`> And I may do more nonfiction. I'm still adding blog entries on writing techniques.
<Anne> There was a movie a while back, with Billy Crystal.
<patric> Really bad in a different way. I would cheerfully go back to bad plumbing than go forward into the world my 22-year-old niece will see when she is my age...
<Lexie13> write fiction, JL. Write fiction!!
<Seanara> I'd think it's hard to maintain hope, Midge, if you don't have rent or food money and you see all that nonsense on television where so many people seem to have so much that you don't have.
<Anne> The upshot of it was that he realized that it wasn't what he was doing but that he wasn't doing it well enough.
<MTZ> bad plumbing comes with cholera and other nasties
<Seanara> Patric, what do you anticipate, then?
01<patric> Yep. I know. I couldn't remember how to spell dysentery.... heh
<JL`> Patric has a point --- the direction of the world is not attractive to anyone right now, which may be why younger people focus on fantasy rather than SF.
<MTZ> too much SF, so called, is pessimistic
<Laurrain1> Oh, Patric, rereading my diary for December, I discovered that I had updated my software right AFTER my first attempt to post my review. so I was wrong.
<Anne> City Slickers
<patric> That's a subject for a few hours, Seanara.. More time than I have. Suffice it to say the world will be unattractive TO ME, simply because of what I remember. For HER, it will seem normal, and to me that's dismal.
<Lexie13> didn't used to be. doesn't have to be, MTZ
<patric> Laurraine. Ah cool. Thanks for letting me know.
<Seanara> I see. ~~thoughtful~~ I wonder what our parents thought, along the same line.
<JL`> Yes, our parents felt the same.
<Anne> My parents were involved in the war effort.
<JL`> Nobody saw the INTERNET coming.
<MTZ> sigh, just wish we'd get less of that submitted and more of the positive SF
<patric> Well.. I am in that rocking chair generation, but MY parents are terrified of computers... That says enough right there.
<Seanara> My father never learned to drive a car or use a computer, and he was a WWII veteran.
<JL`> SF is basically about discovering and inventing and improving THE FUTURE. The fantasy I've seen lately has been mostly about PREVENTING change.
<MTZ> yes! that's the SF I want
<patric> Margaret, I would HAPPILY submit that stuff if I had a thought in hell the POSITIVE stuff would be accepted.
<MTZ> patric
<JL`> There's all this fight of "Good" against "Evil" that's about preventing horrible nasties from bursting out of the ground and eating us alive.
<Anne> What's happening now is that there's so much corruption being revealed, basically because of our technology enriched world, that people are afraid of what happens the next hour.
<Midge> My Dad was born in a coal-mining town in 1916, yet he wrote a story about a flight to the moon when he was a kid
<Laurrain1> RED OCTOBER
<Anne> Every time I see "Breaking News" in my e-mail I get nervous.
<patric> That's different Midge. That was when the future *appeared* hopeful... Can you say that's still true, based on your current values?
<JL`> Anne has a point --- we have a 6 hour news cycle. It's more than human physiology can TAKE -- the stress of just watching the news once a day. RED OCTOBER -- good point.
<Midge> On my current values. yes. Because I'm the hope springs eternal type
<patric> Thanks Margaret.... Though I was being somewhat rhetorical.. Making a point that what's wanted generally isn't what I write...
<JL`> Midge, I'm in love with your Dad! Wow. What a cool guy.
<JL`> Well, this is the portrait of the world is in -- and thus can affect if we can muster the spirit.
<patric> Besides which, Margaret. I am not a writer. I just play one on TV. heh
<Midge> JL, I could tell you so many stories about my Dad. They neighborhood kids used to come to our house and ask "can Lester come out and play?" If he wasn't busy, Dad would.
<JL`> I think this coming year has some grand opportunities for to expand, grow and maybe supply input into the direction the whole world is going.
<patric> Spirit we have. Time and cash I do not have. Puts a damper on things...
<MTZ> yep, lots of writers get the part about the first half of the story getting worse and worse for their characters, unfortunately they stop there
<JL`> Well, I generally stop when things are looking up -- way UP!
<Anne> People started asking what happens after "and they lived happily ever after."
<patric> That's because they don't know how to resolve their own conflicts successfully, much less their characters'...
<Midge> True, Paric
<MTZ> yep, that's why you hooked me way back with House of Zeor, I think it was
<Anne> And unfortunately, the answer most people gave them was that the plumbing clogged and the electricity went out. And they divorced.
* patric howls with laughter as his speaking agent makes a hash (so rude) of "Paric"...
<Midge> Dang sticky keys -- makes me look like I can't spell
<patric> Stupid fingers for me. I KNOW how to spell "their"...
<MTZ> lol
<patric> I really do...
<JL`> You all have made some really great points --- fiction is a reflection (maybe distorted into BETTER, maybe distorted into WORSE but still a reflection) of the reality we live in. People read fiction to SHARE their inner world.
<Lexie13> I can spell. I just can't vote.
<JL`> So instead of reading fiction today, people share their inner world with others via a blog.
<patric> 'zactly, lex. Yes, but aren't they creating a fiction in doing so?
<JL`> There's a cure for sticky keys. I wish I could remember it.
<Midge> There's also the factor of quicker feedback, JL
<JL`> Blogs are likely mostly fiction -- at least the better ones -- no matter how personal.
<patric> Exactly my point..
<JL`> Midge -- right on. Instant gratification. Can't beat it.
<patric> In a general lifetime, how many really funny, really intriguing events happen to a person?
<Anne> To me, at least seven every day.
<MTZ> um, depends on the person's attitude, I think
<Anne> It's all in the way you look at your own life.
* patric mutters as he sees flood warnings come across his weather bug. Yeesh!
<Midge> Blogs have the same effect as clown makeup: they let you show yourself to the world while remaining safely hidden. It's freedom in a nutshell.
<JL`> Ah, Patric --- the formula for the "novel" or even more so for the "short story" is to PICK one single PIVOTAL moment in a character's life and tell the story of that CHANGE that happened because of the events in the story.
<MTZ> of course, it helps to have cats around
<Lexie13> but one has to know how to tell the story, or it's of interest only to oneself
<Anne> Actually, any time anyone decides to DO something that's out of their comfort zone, it's an adventure.
<Laurrain1> Patric, best of luck to you regarding the flood warnings.
<JL`> Many beginning writers MISS that essential point --- even movie scripts I've seen -- and it has become more acceptable in print media to ignore that formula point.
* Lexie13 has a cat on her lap at the moment, trying to help with the typing
* patric has five cats, and although admittedly cynical, also has a generally positive outlook on life, and yet, the only event of interest TO ANYONE ELSE would be the trials and tribulations of ice storms and no power. once in five years. "Me, too!"
<Lexie13> a good purr changes one's whole worldview
01<patric> Spend more time making corrections. hehe
<Anne> lol
<JL`> Well, gang, you see why Midge has so much of my respect. She's nailed the definition of BLOG.
<MTZ> and other eyes might see what you miss
<JL`> It is clown makeup.
<patric> Its been that way since the first chat room back in what, '85?
<Midge> My Dad taught me that. He could allow himself to be a true clown WITHOUT the makeup
<patric> A way to hide in plain sight, as it were... How many years of nights spent typing to strangers who logged into my BBS and wanted to chat... wow...
<JL`> Yes, since the mid-1980's --- a generation has passed, and these new kids never knew any other world. But they're not kids now, they're in their 30's!
<patric> Now they are writing blogs!!!
<Midge> On the cats -- mine is asleep. My HUSBAND is hovering
<JL`> Absolutely, Patric -- now the chatters are blogging.
<patric> And yet the content doesn't change. Still the same old glarp.
<JL`> You know, I've got to leave now --- it's 5PM here and I've got to get dinner on the table, and Anne is leaving tomorrow.
<Anne> And I have to pack
<Zoe> I am amazed how much personal stuff people put on their blogs
<patric> And Midge, if John is hovering for a snuggle from me, pass it on please...
<JL`> My husband is probably starving. I've been snarling at him to leave me work now for what? 5 hours at least.
<MTZ> may the new year bring all the goodness you can handle
<Anne> About that
<Lexie13> Must go, folks. Need to lie down again for a while. Hoping for more health and stamina in '09.
<Midge> Done, Patric. and back at you
<Seanara> And the same to all of you. Happy New Year, all.
<Anne> Happy New Year all of you
<Zoe> Have a good New Year everyone
<patric> Fingers crossed for all.. Take care, everyone. !!
<JL`> OK guys -- Patric you might want to send the log to Karen in case she finds something to add.
<patric> I will, JL...
<JL`> And we'll be hoping the floods miss you.
<MTZ> bye
<Lexie13> Hugs & happy new year, all.
01<patric> ME, TOO! Driveway is already flooded. sigh.
<Zoe> Bye JL
<Seanara> Bye.
<patric> Bye all...
<Laurrain1> Bye
<Midge> Gotta go myself. Bye all
<Zoe> Bye. I should be editing my nano work, but I am procrastinating Take care all and Happy New Year.

Session Close: Thu Jan 01 19:05:25 2009 EST
Session Moderated by
Karen MacLeod
Logs edited by
Karen MacLeod
Page posted by 
Kaíres Tévesu

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