Sime~Gen™ Inc. New Years Chat - 2008

This is a record of the informal chat among Sime~Gen participants, going on in a separate chatroom, concurrent with the formal business meeting.

The business meeting was called to order, proceeded through the agenda, and was formally adjourned.

This discussion flowed on in the background, before, during and after the meeting.

irc_name -- 'real' name
<JL`> -- Jacqueline Lichtenberg 
<jean> -- Jean Lorrah 
<Patric> -- Patric Michael, Webmaster
<APP> -- Anne Phyllis Pinzow * 
<MTZ> -- Margaret I. Carr 
<Karen> -- Karen MacLeod 
<Midge> -- Midge Baker, 
   Reviews Department Head 
<Kaires> -- Kaíres TÚvesu - Simécenter
<Lexie> -- Lexie Pakulak 
<Seanara> -- Seanara Coyote 
<nrc> -- Nadene Carter 
   of epress-online, inc

* had connectivity problems and 
  later voted with JL's assistance

Session Start: Tue Jan 01 14:43:38 2008
Session Ident: #sgtalk

* Karen changes topic to 'Welcome to the chat room for New Year's 2008'
<JL`> OK here is where we just talk to each other. This is good software. It seems to remember the settings I had here last time.
<Karen> Yes, this one is for chat. I'm using an ANCIENT mIRC, and it still keeps poking along.
Get Anne into this room, too. Looks like she got disconnected
<JL`> Anne's computer is having intermittent connection problems to my wireless network. It works - then doesn't. But our other computers stay connected. Problem is in her laptop somewhere.
<Karen-> Hmmm. Long as we don't lose YOU.
<JL`> I haven't (knock on wood) had a connection problem since the router was replaced.
<Karen> I'm still using Dial up, and Windows 98 on my desktop, though Tom has threatened me with a new machine this year, I really don't want it. I'm in TWO different mIRC software installs, and logging on both.
<JL`> I know you don't -- but "obsolete" is becoming a mantra again.
<Karen> Sorry.... everything's on here. Even my laptop (similar vintage) doesn't have ALL my files.
Just set MODERATION in the other room.
<JL`> Karen - either I don't know how to work the web-page access or it's not working properly. Anne can't get a chat window. Hi Midge!!! We're trying to get everyone into the chat rooms. Karen - on AIM Anne is apinzow See if you can talk her through logging in via the web page.
<Karen> Yes, I know. I'm sitting at Litman address. Just have her follow the web page directions. It's all there. She'll have to open two browser windows, I think, to get into 2 chat rooms.
<JL`> She can't get properly into ONE of them.
<Karen> Weird.... I checked the web page. It's working.
<JL`> I know it says she's logged in, but when she types in the typing slot, it says "this is not a chat window" and asks for a command.
<Karen> Let me check it.
<JL`> I remember you did check it. Maybe I don't know how to work it.
<JL`> Midge - are you on via the web page or using mIRC? Not getting a response from Midge either.
<Midge> Yes , Midge here
<JL`> Ah, ok. So how are you accessing?
<Midge> I'm on the domain chat page
<Karen> Weird. I just posted... so it works.
<JL`> Anne is offline again, I think.
<Karen> The chat page is working. "Guest" is me.
<Midge> I had to remember to hit "enter" to send.
<Karen> Now anyone can post in the business room, but I'll change that later.
<JL`> Yes, we're just testing now.
<Karen> I tested it after we moved servers.... so that's all for the good. It does work, but you have to open two browsers to have each window, no?
<JL`> This is so strange. I had Anne log in again, and the machine returned a list of dozens of "Anne" in use, changing it to -- adding numbers up to the thousands.
<Karen> Not really. The page works. The CHAT ROOMS are in GREEN BORDERED pages.
<JL`> Then it disconnected it.
<Karen> ?????
<JL`> It disconnected HER, I mean.
<Karen> But she's in the other chat room... I just took off the moderation for now. We also lost Anne, too.
<JL`> Yeah, seems like it. This is very frustrating.
<Karen> Beats me, since the page works. I checked its workings as soon as Patric moved the server and told us it was the new machine.
<JL`> wow - Anne!!
<JL`> I see you in sgtalk as well.
<Karen> Well, it SEEMS to be working.
<Midge> I got in my the "self" drop down, logged into one room, minimized that green border window, the used "self again to get in the other one.
<Karen> Ahhh... didn't know that trick.
<JL`> This is the room where we just discuss whatever comes to mind. sgchat will be where the business meeting reports get posted.
<Karen> I don't use the browser for mIRC
<JL`> Anne, can you post here?
<Midge> Not a trick, Karen, just me trying anything once, again - lol!
<APP1> For the time being
<JL`> Good
<Karen> Anne should post in both places. I turned off the moderating in the other room.
<JL`> I want to introduce you to Midge -- who now runs our REVIEWS DEPARTMENT.
<JL`> Anne, try sgchat to be sure you can post there too.
<Midge> Hi, Anne, we meet again.
<APP2> I'm I posting where I'm supposed to be posting?
<JL`> Yes, this is where we just talk to each other.
<Karen> Well, this is the schmoozing room... but business will be conducted in the other.
<Midge> Anne, remember to move your cursor to the other window.
<Karen> I have to clean the logs up, so the other room will eventually be moderated, and some people won't get to chat there unless asked to.
<APP2> If me computer stays connected to the internet. I've had troubles all week with the wireless connection at JL's
<Karen> I'm so glad I'm still on dial up.
<JL`> When we open voting, we collect the VOTES in sgchat Karen - yes, it's another layer of complication, true.
<Karen> I can move votes if I have to, with cut and paste.
<JL`> It worked out last year that people voted in the business room.
<Karen> Now you see why I don't want the new computer....
<JL`> Better to get a "new" computer before the old one dies, so you CAN revert when necessary.
<Karen> I still have the laptop, and I only use that a couple times a year...but all my files are on this one. Tom just replaced one of 3 fans in it, and the old one is still going strong.
<JL`> Lexie!!!!
<Midge> Hi, Lexie!
<JL`> It's so good to see you here. What's up with you?
* Karen just gave instructions so Lexie could get on. Join the business room, too...
<Lexie> Hi, all. Steve, actually. Just getting in here early for the meeting. Lexie will be along in a bit.
<Midge> Hi Steve.
* Karen smile. "Get her set up in the other room, too."
<JL`> * ~~~ welcome
<Lexie> Thanks :)
<Karen> Lost Anne again.... JL.... type /me to get the * actions.
* JL` Being upset Anne's connection is wavering. *~~~#@%$
* Karen smiles. "Wish I could help her." Maybe the best we can do is share the log with her. Definitely a connection problem ----> * APP has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
<JL`> Her wireless connection to my network (she's in my house, Steve) cuts in and out for NO REASON we can see or fix. Been a week now. She leaves on Thursday morning.
<JL`> Jean!
<Karen> Don't forget the other room, Jean.
<Midge> Hi, Jean!
<jean> Hi, everyone.
<Karen> Just moderated the other room as the meeting time is getting closer.
<Karen> Margaret Carr, no?
<MTZ> thanks Karen, yes, of epress-online, inc. hi everyone
<Midge> Hi Margeret!
<jean> Hi, Margaret.
* Karen smiles. "I should be actually "working" rather than sitting here."
<JL`> BTW Karen - did I congratulate you on editing a book that got nominated for an award?
<Karen> I shouldn't have told anyone...<smile> I also did an early draft of the one Rowena has nominated.
* Karen hides.
<JL`> Margaret - tell us what's going on with the publishing you're doing.
<MTZ> why not, Karen, it is good PR for the book
<Midge> Karen you come back here!
<MTZ> well, we finally got incorporated this past year
<Karen> I'm here, just "hiding." The author of the book is quite modest, and doesn't feel worthy.
<JL`> Yea!!!
<MTZ> had one finalist in the EPPIES, a mystery
<Karen> Did they win?
<MTZ> won't know until EPICon in March, Karen
<Karen> Ahhh...
<JL`> How many titles have you put out so far?
<MTZ> it is in Portland, OR this year and I hope to make it there
<JL`> Oh, that'll be fun! Patric is near Portland.
<MTZ> ah, not quite 30 yet since 2002
<JL`> But going for quality not quantity?
<Karen> I'm with even smaller e-publishers than that, Margaret...
<MTZ> yes. which is one main reason so little SF. lots of people submit, most aren't up to standard
<JL`> So many have had financial troubles, it calls into question the e-pub business model. Are you able to clear more on each title than you have to invest?
<MTZ> I know, Karen
<Midge> That's nearly 6 books a year - a great record!
<MTZ> on the average, yes, JL. big crunch is ISBNs
<JL`> For a small outfit 6 a year is a strong program.
<Karen> I've edited some really bad submissions... one author didn't take most of my edits, and his book isn't on my resume.
<MTZ> would have made a profit last three years if it hadn't been for that expense
<JL`> Yes, I heard the costs of ISBN's going up and up to crowd out little publishers.
<Karen> ISBN's seem to limit how many books any of the e-pubs I work with release.
<MTZ> well, last batch we got was 100 so that was better
<Karen> What kind of investment for 100 is it?
<MTZ> we are set for a while, but had to pay up front. just under $1000
* Karen nods. "Thought it was something like that."
<Midge> Lordy!
<MTZ> but buying ten at a time averages about $25 each
<JL`> Yes, that's the deal they went to in order to reduce the number of publishers out there.
<MTZ> so hmm, I'm listing them in Break even at $8.40 each
<Karen> And e-books are low priced when it comes to selling "copies" for the most part, so recooping the investment isn't that worthwhile.
<MTZ> and being on Fictionwise helps sales lots
<JL`> It does? Are there other e-bookstores that move a lot of product?
<MTZ> once the $15 conversion charge is taken care of
<JL`> We should have a fictionwise affiliate account -- I think we do but have never used it.
<Karen> I've heard that. Several of the books Kate Hofman wrote, are there. I edited most of her titles.
<MTZ> I've heard some do, but they are mostly romance oriented, or erotica not our thing
<jean> Lois and I sell more on Fictionwise than anywhere else.
<jean> Ours are children's books.
<Karen> Fictionwise is quite important to the success of a book.
<jean> We are consistently among their best sellers with one or more of our titles.
<MTZ> yep, got some of yours there, just because
<JL`> We review a lot of e-books -- the ones that aren't on amazon should have links on the review to fictionwise.
<Karen> But I work with one publisher, JL, that will not put her books on Fictionwise because she can't afford the conversion fees. So the book gets lost in the shuffle....
<MTZ> oh, the new Amazon setup,, we have almost all our books up there now the non-fic is slower because they don't have our preferred size and binding Karen, of the books we have on Fictionwise, only one has not made a profit
<JL`> I just looked it up. We HAD an affiliate account at fictionwise, but got a notice that it was closed in 2007. I think they stopped running an affiliate program.
* Karen nods. "I wish I could talk this publisher into it, but she won't do it."
<Midge> Is that Amazon's "Kindle" format?
<MTZ> you don't pay the conversion charge, they deduct it from your 50% and if it doesn't sell enough to cover, no charge to you
* Karen nods. "I appreciate the information. I may try to talk her into it knowing this new information."
<MTZ> all epress books are multi-format, which includes Kindle now, except one
<JL`> Well, obviously Margaret's company has made superb progress!
<MTZ> we just did the second edition of our very first book, "Word Castles."
<JL`> You are really learning the ropes.
<jean> Excellent!
<Karen> I'm still in the stone age. No i-Pod, no portable e-book reader...
<MTZ> it is poetry and layout on the page is important, so it is pdf only
<JL`> Yeah, that's so NEAT.
<Karen> How wonderful.... sounds promising for your company.
<MTZ> but still no D(on't) R(ead) M(e)
<JL`> Anne's back!!!
<MTZ> yes, we have grown slowly, and with lots of volunteer time put in, but are seeing good results
<JL`> Anne we've been discussing e-publishing. MTZ is Margaret who runs an e-publishing company that's slowly growing and making inroads.
<jean> I wonder if the Kindle will fly. Is Amazon influential enough to create a standard that no one else has been able to do?
<JL`> Comments on EPIC's lists indicated people disliked KINDLE. It's very proprietary and incompatible. The reading device is expensive.
<JL`> "Creating a standard" is what they're trying to do.
<JL`> If Google adopts it, it'll fly.
<MTZ> if you want to see our page at Fictionwise it is at
<jean> Exactly. Everyone has taken the Wii model of expensive equipment.
<JL`> Margaret - thanks for the URL -- Karen be sure to include it in the logs.
<MTZ> which is why Fictionwise still leads outside of Baen
<Karen> I am logging.
<jean> What might work would be the old Polaroid Camera model: make the hardware cheap, and what runs on it more expensive.
<JL`> Brother printers does it that way.
<MTZ> the opus cartoon (EDITORIAL NOTE: this past Sunday, December 30, 2007) was interesting. Did you notice the difference between the chapter one on the reader and in the print version?
* Karen laughs. "I did."
<MTZ> and then in the last panel, Opie is using the reader for a light to read the print book by
<JL`> I read e-books on Mobipocket.
<Karen> And the ultimate...... I was just going to mention the last panel... Maybe one of these days when the format wars are done with, I'll think of getting an e-book reader.
<jean> Looking for a way to get more income for S~G, I've come across a new ebook model.
<MTZ> I suspect as the one-laptop gets spread, there will be possibilities there
<jean> Non-fiction how-to books.
<Midge> Good idea, Jean.
<JL`> That's a "model"? Non-fic how-to?
<jean> They are just flatly making them PDF pay-to-download. No different formats at all.
<MTZ> yes, they are big. sigh, we had two entries in non-fiction, writing craft and neither finaled
<jean> Your only choice is to read on screen or print out.
<MTZ> well, consider how many user manuals are pdf
<JL`> That's very limiting, with just pdf. My Mobipocket WON'T display PDF on my Palm (I do have a PDF reader installed on the Palm but it doesn't work well, either).
<MTZ> hardly any hardware or software comes with a printed manual now
<jean> Exactly--computer users are used to the format.
<MTZ> I know, JL, but some things just won't work on the small screen
<JL`> The neat thing about nonfic as e-book should be that it's SEARCHABLE for the exact piece of instruction you want to look up.
<jean> These guys don't care, don't listen to whines about it not showing on Blackberry.
<JL`> Which guys?
<jean> Their answer is "Download to your desktop, not your Blackberry."
<MTZ> or laptop, or tablet
<jean> I can go into my email and name names you've never heard of. Internet entrepreneurs.
<MTZ> oh good, my layout genius has arrived in sgchat
<jean> They sell information, not physical product.
<MTZ> and here, hi Nadene
<nrc> Hi, I had to go back and activate "talk". Hello to everyone
<Midge> Hi Patric!
<jean> They don't schlepp anything to the Post Office. They don't warehouse anything.
<jean> Hi, Patric! Glad you could join us!
<JL`> Jean - that's the business model we want - no schlepping.
<Midge> Hi Nadene.
<Patric> Hi Jean..., Midge... Everyone...
<JL`> We'll wait a few more minutes for others to arrive.
<MTZ> epress has been considering other non-fic, of how-to type, but I want there to bes some relation to writing
<jean> That's why I've been looking into this model, which is clearly working for many people.
<jean> BUT, it takes a huge amount of TIME.
<Karen> Who is nrc for the log purposes? And Nadene?
<JL`> Yes, please introduce yourselves.
<MTZ> nrc is Nadene is Nadene Carter of epress-online, inc.
<JL`> JL' is Jacqueline Lichtenberg
<nrc> Can you see me here
<jean> The new guys on the block are NOT promising "Work an hour a week and make millions."
<Karen> Other room is moderated... so no one can talk there yet.
<JL`> Yes, Nadene we see you.
<JL`> APP is Anne Pinzow
<Midge> Hi Seanara!
<JL`> Seanara we know! I'm so glad you could get here.
<nrc> Okay, I had to go back and access "talk". I work with MTZ at ePress-online
<Seanara> Oh good, I'm not late. Hi, everyone!
* Karen smiles at Seanara. "Guess you'll have to nap before we chat tonight.."
<jean> They are promising millions if you work as hard as they do--and ghod, they produce faster than I can READ it all!
<Seanara> JL, it's so "good" to see you!
<JL`> Yes, we're just waiting for people whose clocks are slow.
<MTZ> jean, I suspect they are scanning paper copies
* Seanara smiles back at Karen. Seanara was napping until about half an hour ago.
* Karen is actually hoping to see JL in March at Ecumenicon.... But will you be awake, later Seanara? <grin>
<jean> Someone has to write paper copies before they can be scanned.
<MTZ> saw off the spine and feed through a sheet-fed scanner
<jean> It's faster to write on screen.
<JL`> I'm looking forward to EVERYTHING at Ecumenicon EXCEPT it being March in Maryland where it's COLD by comparison to March in Phoenix.
<MTZ> true, but diagrams and such are harder
<Karen> Be sure to send me book/flyer stock for Ecumenicon. We'll get it there for you.
<Seanara> yup, better bring your warm clothes, JL.
<Patric> Hi all.. I'll be a bit distracted 'cuz I am still working, but intro me to the new handles.. MTZ, nrc ?
<Seanara> Hi, Patric
<jean> Actually all their ebooks look alike, and they will sell you the software for designing your own to look just like theirs.
<Patric> Seanara! Hi!!
<Karen> Margaret Carr <MTZ> is with us every year. Don't know nrc.
<nrc> MTZ and I work at ePress-online
<MTZ> Patric, I'm the other Margaret, Margaret Carr
<Patric> Hi Margaret Carr! Been a while, eh?
<Karen> Name, please nrc for our log transcripts....
<nrc> Nadene Carter is nrc
<Karen> Ahhhh... welcome.
<JL`> OK, I'll BRB and we can start the meeting. Keep new joiners getting introduced.
<Patric> HI Nadene... :)
* Karen cleans up the logs so they can be posted online later.
<nrc> Hi Patric
* Seanara waves a welcome at Nadine and offers her a cup of virtual coffee or tea.
<Karen> Good to see you, Patric.... guess you managed to wake up enough to join us.
<MTZ> sigh, another shy writer. Nadene has three books at epress, a mystery, U.S. historical, and Writing craft
<jean> Good for you, Nadine!
<MTZ> plus she is my layout genius
* Karen smiles at Nadene. Karen edits books as a freelancer.
<jean> One thing about selling yourself on the Internet: you CAN'T be shy on screen.
<Seanara> Hi, Kaires!
<Midge> Hi Kaires!
<Karen> Lost Kaires
<Seanara> oops...
<MTZ> and she edited the SF book that finaled last year for the EPPIES, didn't win though
<jean> Go ahead and be shy in person, but online you have to get out there and SELL yourself.
<nrc> PR and selling is what epress-online MUST do this year. It must be our #1 goal
<MTZ> well, if we make the 2008 EPICon we'll be doing a workshop, Your publisher is Not your Friend
* Karen shrugs. "I keep my resume website updated, and pass around a few flyers and business cards."
<Lexie13-away> hmm, I'm here now and it's really me, but I can't seem to change my nick to reflect that.
<JL`> Hi Kaires!
<nrc> Karen I used to freelance before I joined ePress. <smile>
<jean> Sime~Gen is in a similar situation, except that we have to work out WHAT we can sell to increase our income.
<Karen> Use the "command" function to change your nick.
<jean> We now have higher expenses.
<JL`> OK folks, I have 8 minutes after 2 Mountain Standard Time.
<Karen> I have 8 after also.
<Midge> Me, too.
<jean> My computer says 9 after.
<Lexie13-away> I did. "Cannot change nickname while banned or moderated on channel."
<nrc> Karen, I'm dense...where is the command function
<Midge> Is Laurraine coming?
<Karen> Well, will fix that to change it. Now try, Lexie, and I'll change it back.
<JL`> Waiting
<Lexie> ta-da!
<JL`> Hi Lexie!
<Karen> "Command" function is in the mIRC program, but not on the website access.
<JL`> OK, everyone set?
<MTZ> set
<nrc> set
<Midge> set
<Karen> Back to moderated in the other room. Go ahead.
<Kaires> Am I really here this time? This is rather surreal.
<nrc> What other room?
<Karen> You're here, Kaires.
<Karen> #schat....
<Seanara> I'm wondering if you can change your nick in your status window and it will apply to the moderated room as well. ~~thoughtful~~
<nrc> Okay, over in the "chat" right?
<Karen> No...not if moderated. I turned off moderation so Lexie could fix it.
<MTZ> Nadene, you are in both but will need to shrink and move channels to see both
<Patric> Hey kaires.. You are here. So am I. :) And I need a response from you soon please....
<Karen> Business room is the "chat" room.
<Karen> Patric, did you move my mail yet?
<Kaires> response?
<Patric> I did not, but I got your message. Thanks... Remember that I cannot resend what is already on the server though.
<nrc> Okay I have both windows open
<Patric> Yes Kaires. I need a gmail or equivalent address from you to redirect to...
<JL`> Who wants to do their department report first?
<jean> Whoops! Company just pulled into the driveway! BRB
<Patric> I can, since its so bloody short. :)
* Karen nods. "So delete what's on the server. Most of it is trash."
<Patric> Got it Karen. Thanks..
<JL`> Good, Patric first -- starting with our adventures with the new server.
* Karen smiles.
<Kaires> oh, okay, Patric. I'll do that today. I've been buried under a flood of brushfires.
<Patric> Which window?
<Karen> #chat window OTHER WINDOW
<Patric> Understood Kaires. Gmail by preference so I can help you set it up.
<JL`> Next will be Reviews dept - OK Midge?
<Midge> Ok
<Karen> Ready for you, once Patric is done, Midge.
<Midge> Got it.
<JL`> Whoo! indeed on FTP speeds.
* Karen smiles. "Don't have to op people in a non-moderated room."
<Seanara> Hi, Kaires. Sorry nobody got to you that before. Who's APP?
<Karen> Anne Pinzow, staying with JL, who keeps getting thrown off her connection.
<JL`> Anne Pinzow - the writer of the first Sime~Gen Script. She's visiting and is sitting in the warm sun on my back porch. She also edited Ambrov Zeor for years.
<Seanara> Still, if everyone else is opped....
<Karen> Don't tell us about warm sun... though we do have sun... it will be setting in about 30 mins.
* Seanara smiles. "Warm sun in Arizona sounds lovely."
<Lexie> Extra backups are the part that impress me... a point I've been big on since Steve and I had both our hard drives die within a week of each other.
<nrc> Would you believe 6 degrees this morning here in northern Utah
<JL`> Yes, I was particularly relieved to get this new machine.
<Seanara> yipe! SIX degrees?
<Karen> I just did a full backup of the computer this morning... using the old tape backup I still have.
<MTZ> brrr
<JL`> However, everyone who posts work onto has to REMEMBER TO BACK UP THEIR OWN BACKUPS -- because you never know!
<Kaires> data sticks are a life saver
* Karen has had computers die on her, but restored because of the tapes.
<Kaires> carry data easily from one computer to another, so there are multiple copies of everything.
<Karen> Kaires, you know my laptop has almost nothing on it. My desk machine, though...
<JL`> I like that "emerging and existant multimedia capabilities. GOTTA LOVE THAT PATRIC!
<Lexie> minus 8 Celsius here in Calgary right now... call it +14F
<Seanara> "My sympathies to all the chilly ones here." Seanara offers virtual hot drinks around. "I'm in Washington, DC, and it's chilly but not as cold as it is elsewhere."
<nrc> I'd rather have it now than it June. Don't laugh. It happens.
<Kaires> Here in hi-desert (SW of Rialite, as my address labels say) its all the way up to 50 F today
Well below freezing last night
<Seanara> the hot air from the politicians keeps the place relatively warm.
<Karen> "It's about 50 now in the Baltimore area." Karen grins at Seanara. "Pffffffffft."
<nrc> LOL-Seanara
<MTZ> 43 f here
<nrc> Now that would be absolutely balmy!
* Seanara grins back at Karen and Nadene.
* Karen was awakened by her young orange cat and saw the sun come she is watching it slowly go down in about 15 minutes.
* Patric scrolls around to see what I missed here...
<Seanara> Think how you might feel in Orkney, Karen. They get even less sun during the winter.
<Lexie> Yay Patric... the trouble with your job is that most of us only notice it when something goes wrong.
<Karen> Considering that the Scottish terrain isn't disabled friendly, as Jean says, I doubt I'd find out.
<Patric> Lexie: Lol. Dont I know it... :)
<Karen> Wait... you missed something Midge, about the Readers choice awards in the business room....
<Patric> Just please, PLEASE do'nt hesitate to tell me if something is wrong, Ok? I tell folks when I am working and whatnot so they will know why my responses might not be immediate, NOT so they will leave me alone. Drives me nuts when well meaning folks say "I didn't want to bother you." and the server has been choking for the last three hours or so.. heh
<JL`> Kaires - give us a Simecenter report please?
<Karen> I try to keep you informed, Patric, when I know something's awry...
<JL`> I hear you, Patric.
<Patric> Yes you do Karen.. But not even you can be up at all hours of the day and night...
<jean> Okay--Clay is leaving. He just came to borrow my tripod.
<JL`> Here comes the SimeCenter report.
* Karen laughs. "I usually am up at all hours."
<JL`> Oh, good Kaires -- documenting -- I love the sound of that.
<Patric> Me, too, Karen, when I haven't collapsed...
<MTZ> hmm, what sort of art is Kaires looking for?
<Karen> Ask her...or check out the Simecenter Site for details.
<Patric> MTZ: Presumably something she can offer as an incentive to make a donation.
<Patric> .me snorts with laughter at that.
<MTZ> ah
* Patric also wishes he can bloody type...
<jean> Ask Kaires, but I think most of the art falls into two categories:
<Patric> Thanks Kaires...
<JL`> Romance Department
<jean> 1. book covers that have gone op or been replaced in a new edition
<JL`> Anyone want to comment on or discuss the romance department remake?
<Karen> Who is doing Romance..?
<jean> 2. Artwork the artist created to demonstrate his/her abilities.
<JL`> At the moment, we keep getting a volunteer, who then does nothing. OK, I'll cover that in the President's report.
* Karen shrugs. "I've helped put up new interviews.... some are romance authors."
<JL`> Any other department head reports?
<jean> That's been a problem with Romance from the beginning. Some great work, but inconsistency.
<JL`> OK Karen - you want to report on posting INTERVIEWS?
<Patric> Eventually we need to the Romance Department to make it self sustaining... Do with romance what we did with reviews...
<JL`> They've been proliferating recently.
<Karen> I suppose I can about the interviews.
<JL`> OK, please do.
<JL`> Yes, Patric -- we need to move in that direction. Oh, forgot - under Reviews - we also have a new COLUMN.
<Patric> Unlike reviews however, once romance is set up, it needs only be refreshed from time to time...
<JL`> Midge help Karen out with names of authors interviewed and posted. Good thank you Midge.
<Patric> Although a small start, those interviews point toward a growing number of interviews being offered and / or requested/
<Karen> Thanks, Midge.
<MTZ> hmm. we recently added a category romance line because we have a qualified editor at last
<JL`> Yes, it's something we want to do more of.
<MTZ> so far she doesn't have a lot to do. maybe I could ask her if she'd like to help you guys out
<Midge> Karen, there's also Victoria Rosendahl interviewed by Alice.
<Kaires> I met Linnea Sinclair at NASFIC...we were working the BroadUniverse/EPIC table
<Karen> All I ever seem to edit are ROMANCES
<Patric> That's probably because they make the easiest transition to emerging electronic formats...
<Kaires> Karen, isn't that better than Rockoids?:
* Patric SHUDDERS at Rockoids......
<MTZ> we aren't going to do straight romance, just genre books with a strong romance element
<Seanara> Yes and no... Karen, did you mention the glow-in-the-dark you-know-whats?
<JL`> Anne feels the same way about Rockoids.
<Karen> Let's not mention ROCKOIDS.... but I have never been a romance fan... though romance is the most popular genre around.
<jean> Romance is still the best selling genre category in all formats.
<Lexie> er, what's a Rockoid?
<JL`> OK, are there any further department reports or comments?
<Karen> No.... that story with the "glow in the dark" is also up for an award, and JL knows the author.
<Midge> What are Rockoids? Or would I rather not know?
<jean> I should report on finances.
<Karen> You don't want to see: one book I don't have on my resume.
<Patric> Lexie: Rockoids is a grand example of when an author circumvents a number of channels to get him or herself published.
<JL`> Treasurer's report.
<Seanara> Midge, I recently learned a very appropriate gesture to describe Rockheads. Karen, you know the one William taught me over Thanksgiving weekend.
<JL`> Go ahead Jean.
<Seanara> and no, it isn't the third finger.
<Midge> What is it?
<Karen> It's also a fine example of when the author continues to write AFTER you edit, and ruins all your hard work by not taking your advice, and publishes junk because of it.
<Seanara> Open your mouth and point your first two fingers in the direction of your throat. That's Rockoids.
<Karen> In other words.... mock gag yourself, Seanara's trying to express.
<Midge> Got it. yuck
<Patric> Yes. and we hve to be careful here because we do try to be POSITIVE with emerging authors, but sometimes... sometimes.. Well, you know what I mean.
<Karen> Like I said...that book is NOT on my resume.
<JL`> Anne has given up and is reading over my shoulder.
<Patric> NO, but its indelibly imprinted on our collective consciousness...
<Karen> Sympathies to Anne.
<nrc> And here I thought ePress was the only publisher plagued by authors who don't take editor's advice
<Seanara> Well, my ex used to mime scratching the bottom of the barrel and plunging right through... some writers deserve that, I'm afraid.
<JL`> There's a difference between editing and giving writing lessons that beginners fail to grasp.
<MTZ> ah, that looks like a dozen or so we've rejected. the floss out your brain type
<Karen> Well, there's ANOTHER, one I edited this year, that the author didn't take my edits, either, and released a bad book. Even the publisher apologized to me because he wouldn't accept my changes.
<Patric> Jl: There is a also a difference between someone interested in LEARNING, and someone determined to ignore all advice given.
<Karen> She knows the quality of my work, and this more recent book doesn't meet that standard.
<JL`> A teacher doesn't give "advice" -- but rather exercises.
<Karen> There are people who say they want to be published, and no matter what you try to tell them to improve their work, they won't listen.
<MTZ> we've had to cancel a couple of contracts for that reason
<nrc> We have some authors we just love to work with and a few others we can't accept another book from
<Kaires> Is our Amazon link working again?
* Karen nods. "I outright refused to edit the ROCKOIDS sequels, though he said 'everyone has a price'."
<Kaires> just when I thought I knew the secret code last time, it ceased to function
<JL`> Kaires - Patric is still investigating what we can do to make amazon links.
<Patric> No Kaires, but I think I figured out a way to solve that problem, except where Kindle stuff comes in...
<Midge> It wasn't the last time I tried to construct one.
<Lexie> As a teacher, one of the most damning things I can ever say to a student is, "There is nothing I can teach you." Sadly, most of them take it as a compliment.
<Patric> It is not really apparent how amazon converts the ISBN number to kindle versions...
* Karen nods to Lexie. "How well I know those types."
<Patric> Oooh.. I forgot that part.. The redesign allows for Adsense space to exist on the global pages...
<JL`> Yes, Patric that's what I was hoping for. (on the global page layout)
<Karen> Paste that into the other room, if you want, Patric.
<Patric> Understood. No Karen, its fine...
<Midge> Not a good idea, Patric. I had it for a while on my websites. They don't pay very well, the pay-per-click is expensive, and they'll put ads from your competition, too.
<Karen> Kaires will need a password to upload the chat logs once I clean them up. Get in touch with her.
<Patric> I left out a few things because I didn't want them to be permanent record though. Cant say much about it yet, but I WILL say that for the first time in my entire 15 year career in films, I actually wish I WASNT working it so I could be free to develop these ideas we have been kicking around..
<Karen> Must really be getting yourself into a creative mode then, Patric, if you'd rather be playing with these things than earning money.
<Patric> Midge: Noted. We will be exploring the viability further.. My point was that I had made the space already even before talking to JL or Jean first. Of course I hedged my bet and set it up so I could shift the space to something else in a hurry. :)
<Midge> Good!
<JL`> Any other department reports? (we'll discuss the content of the reports later)
<Patric> Karen, you have no idea... Driving me NUTS to be here (I am actually at work!) rather than developing these projects.
<Karen> I've heard your enthusiasm on the phone, and can sense it in your words here...
* Patric laughs ruefully.. Domain hosting is the easiest because *I* gotta do all the work. LOL!!
* JL` yes I saw her say that! Any other Reports?
<Karen> Don't think so, JL
<JL`> OK, President's Report.
<jean> Patric, is it much work for you once a domain is set up?
<Patric> I wish I could say more, but its too new, still a baby in an egg, really. But the ramifications Karen could involve a wide variety of other people. I am already thinking about Margaret. grin. No jean, of course not. Only when the clients have difficulties... Easy, most of the time...
<Karen> I'm going to have fun repairing the lines in the business log.
* Patric laughs out loud. JL just cracked the egg....
* Karen smiles. JL's cutting and pasting.
<Midge> I did too, Karen.
<JL`> Yep - too long to type.
* Karen smiles. "Cracking the egg isn't completely breaking it open..."
* Patric cant keep up with he C & P, so he is letting the machine read it to him...
<MTZ> hmm
<Karen> Oh, I'll get it cleaned up easily enough.
<jean> Jacqueline, we could try selling your Tarot book as our information for sale.
<Karen> I do these things pretty fast when I get putting my mind to it.
<JL`> OK, so though it went up faster than you can read it -- nevermind. Much repeats what others have said. I added a bit at the end about finishing my Tarot book project and not having anyplace to publish it.
<Patric> No Karen, its not kicking the chick into the cold, but it does let in a bit of light...
<JL`> But it's done, and the last two volumes are about writing.
<JL`> Next comes nominations for awards (not stock -- our Digen etc awards) for contributions made during 2007.
<Kaires> I've made tentative arrangements to have a Simegen, etc. party at Westercon this year and next , and at Worldcon.
<MTZ> why no place to publish it? particularly with the world building stuff?
<Karen> Removed moderation for the voting parts.... go ahead, JL, Jean.
<JL`> Kaires - OH GOOD. And I forgot to mention another Patric based project -- the badge-ribbons with the tattoo logo on them.
<Kaires> The artist Guest Of Honor at 09 Westercon is Todd Lockwood!
<JL`> Oh, I didn't notice that. Thank you Kaires. We should do something special for him at the party.
* Patric nod nods about the ribbons.. When I actually get HOME, someone remind me to mod the artwork...
<JL`> Anyone want to nominate someone for an award this year?
<Karen> Oh, don't tell me that, Kaires. I have one wall left for anything that resembles artwork... the one in my hallway. I'll remind you, Patric.
<Patric> Thanks Karen...
<Midge> I have a list a mile long, JL.
<JL`> I want the ribbons by March to take some to Ecumenicon.
* Karen would want some ribbons for Ecumenicon and for Darkover in November.
<JL`> OK, ONE PERSON AT A TIME and name the Award. First nominator is Midge.
<Midge> This room or the other?
<Karen> Open the floor for award nominations, JL...other room.
<JL`> The other room. Thanks for reminding me Karen. Say what Patric has done?
* Karen smiles. "Odd I cant op Seanara."
<Seanara> Should be able to. Thanks, MTZ
<MTZ> yw
<Midge> Sorry.
<JL`> OK put AYE if you're in favor of Patric for this award. Remember what you post in these chat rooms may be posted permanently online. Next nomination?
<Patric> If I remember Digen correctly... Midge.
<Karen> Meritorious Service award is the Digen.
<Patric> She got BOMBED with the reviews department and is still here with us. Good enough. Lemmie know when I can pst that.
* Lexie has been reading an excerpt from "Rockoids" on split screen. Her fingers would be aching for a blue pencil, if she thought the storyline were worth the effort.
<nrc> I just had visitors show up, sorry. Thank you for letting me sit in.
<Patric> Thanks Nadene... !
<JL`> Voting Next nomination?
<Karen> Patric, go nominate....
<JL`> Patric? Midge - is Wanda still with us?
<Midge> Yes, back to doing reviews now, but she pitched in when I needed the help.
<JL`> Karen? Second which one?
<Karen> Second Midge. Vote Midge now.
<Patric> brb
<Midge> Yes
<JL`> Midge, chat in this room.
<Midge> Okay, I keep "losing" my cursor.
<JL`> Yeah, that's always an issue, Midge. Voting now
* Patric is back, covered in sawdust.
<MTZ> lol
* Karen hands Patric a clothes brush.
* JL` blowdryer aimed at Patric JL` cough
<MTZ> tissue
<JL`> next nomination. ??? any further nominations?
<Karen> Midge said she had a whole list of nominees.....
<JL`> this is our permanent record of contributions made to this domain. Vote Patric the Tech-Ton --
* Patric mutters, forever embarrassed by these awards.. Gonna have to abstain next year.
<jean> Did we have any yo-yo's this year--problems that kept coming back and coming back?
<Patric> Besides the server hard drive failures?
<Karen> I think the old server needs a Yo-Yo.....
<Kaires> I nominate myself for BEING a recurring problem
<Karen> It kept getting resurrected.....
* Patric blushes furiously at FOUR exclamation points... :) "Thanks though." He said sheepishly.
<JL`> OK, so I'll make it 5 exclamation points.
<Karen> I'm not editing out any of those exclamation points, either. Well earned.
<Seanara> I think we should have a whole special category of awards for Patric. And for Karen, too. Incredibly dedicated service, over and beyond what anyone could possibly hope for.
<Karen> Patric does much more than I do, though....
<JL`> Any further nominations for awards? (Next order of business is stock shares) The thing with this domain is that EVERYONE does much more than everyone else. Anne is laughing so hard I'm falling out of my chair.
<Lexie> I'm not sure which award, but I'd like to nominate Beverly Erlebacher for continuing to anchor and edit the Borderlands series
* Patric agrees.... There should be an award for sheer determination.
* Seanara grins at Karen. "Pffffffffft."
<JL`> Oh BEV - definitely
<Karen> Problem is that Anne knows me too well.
<Kaires> oohh, yeah! That's cool.
<JL`> Oh, I see Midge nominated. Hold those thoughts! voting Nager Award.
<Karen> I already voted.
<JL`> Next nomination?
<Seanara> Question...
<JL`> We do Bev now? Question?
<Seanara> only one or two Nagers?
<JL`> Any number. It's not a competition.
<Lexie> While the rest of us wander in and out, bae shows up twice every week, and copyedits each episode within a few days of its creation.
<Seanara> that's what I wanted to do, Midge. THANKS!
<JL`> Voting for Karen for the Nager?
<Seanara> Yup.
* Karen wants to hide, but if Patric couldn't, I can't hide either.
* Patric notes dryly that he turned into a tank over the winder, so he can hide you easily behind him now.
<Patric> Usually get great things from Karen, too.
<JL`> Anne says use your imagination about what gets shoveled with a golden shovel.
<Lexie> after all you two do, there's no reason to hide. you're both amazing!
<JL`> Do I hear a second?
<Patric> ???? What's the golden shovel? Oh. LAUGH!! That means she is usually shoveling MINE!
<Karen> I haven't shoveled anything lately.....
<JL`> Absolutely. ROTFL
<Seanara> Which is Frihill? Is that the archeological Householding?
<JL`> Voting for Karen.
* Patric remembers a certain night recently when he was entirely out of sorts sitting in the back of a truck working with Karen while on the server, cleaning lists...
<JL`> Frihill is ARCHEOLOGY They dig up ancients.
<Karen> Yes, if I remember about Frihill...
<Kaires> Can I send in Ari to vote Rior?
<JL`> OK, next nomination?
<Patric> Hooray Karen!!!!!
<Lexie> Sectuib Willow is leaning over my shoulder and whispering "aye" in my ear.
<Karen> I don't think I want to know what that shovel should contain... <grin>
<JL`> Kaires, yes Ari can vote Rior. Next nomination?
* Patric groans at how Microsoft Sam pronounces "sectuib."
<Lexie> Er, how?
<Patric> Lexie: "sex-tub"
<Seanara> Oh, dear.
* Lexie giggles.
<Patric> Exactly....
* Seanara shakes her head, giving a resigned look.
<JL`> Oh PATRIC!!! ohhhhh. voting now
<Patric> JL: Not MY fault!!! I've always said Microsoft was a bit off kilter... :)
<Lexie> I can see a really horrid short-short story in that.
<Midge> Write it!
<Seanara> Well, there has been that controversy in is it "seck-too-ib" or "seck-tweeb."
<JL`> Next nomination?
<Patric> ILLUSTRATE it Lexie!!
* Lexie groans.
<Seanara> one is Gulf, the other is Nivet pronunciation, I think.
<Karen> I guess CZ has to publish it...
* Seanara looks to JL and Jean for confirmation.
<Lexie> um, Beverly. But for which award?
<JL`> Voting for Kaires now.
<jean> Sek-tu-ib" is Gulf and "sek-tweeb" is Nivet.
* Seanara smiles. "Thanks, Jean."
<JL`> More votes for Kaires? Next award?
<Kaires> Aw, shucks! (I can't remember how to make * comments or I would blush)
<Karen> do /me (actions)
<Patric> Yay in abstentia to Lois. Oh good grief...
<Karen> Better add the explanation as to why that was named sex-tub into the actual business log?
<jean> Yes, please do so, Karen.
<Kaires> I can link across to the explanation when I post the files
<Karen> I'll add it anyway...
* Patric notes rather dryly that the "tub" part was actually a fortuitous type. "sex TUBE" was just a bit too over-the-top.....
* Lexie groans
* Patric laughs. Congratulations, Jean...
<JL`> Are there any other nominations?
<JL`> Voting for Margaret L. Carter (not Carr who is here)
<MTZ> but we met at last year's EPICon. I introduced myself as the other Margaret
<Midge> I've run out.
* Patric grins at MTZ... I am forever mixing you two up in my head...
<Lexie> Beverly. Suggestions on which award?
<JL`> Anyone else? Bev - yes, thank you Lexie.
<MTZ> that's one of the reasons I use the MTZ nick
<Karen> The Yo-Yo awards were given by the zines.... maybe Bev should get one of those?
<JL`> Yo Yo half silver half gold to Bev.
<Patric> Whats the award for consistent dedication to the fandom?
<JL`> She is doing OVER AND OVER AND OVER as it takes to publish a fanzine. Yo Yo
<Karen> Then nominate that JL, and make it a combo award.
<Patric> There ya go then. :)
<Kaires> Call it electrum, that's what the ancient Egyptians called a mix of silver and gold
<Midge> Oh, good Kaires!
<Patric> Karen.. Remind me to make another icon image for the "electrum" yoyo then..
<Karen> I will remind you... and we do need to get the awards pages updated one of these centuries.
<Patric> Yeah, I know. Want to database it as well so it can BE updated more often...
<Karen> Ahhh.. Well, I have copies of the old logs if we ever get around to updating them.
<Patric> I can finally DO that with my snazzy new dbase prog. just need TIME!
<JL`> Voting for Bev
<Kaires> Can I talk to you about using Filemaker to generate elegant XML code?
<JL`> That coop fiction is incredible.
<Karen> Yeah... I never have enough hours in the day -- and you have a real job, too, Patric.
<Kaires> It's an entirely new art form. I gotta expand the hype for it in Rimon's library ...IACFT
<Patric> Kaires:. Not yet. XML is grand, but the biggest problem is redefining all the tags to accommodate the existing proprietary backend coding. I LOOKED at XML in the past.
<JL`> Any further nominations?
<Karen> There's plenty of things you have projects going on with, Kaires, that we never did get updated... like the HISTORY pictures.
<Lexie> It may have started out as an RPG, but it has become a collaborative writing technique.
<JL`> Any further nominations.
<Kaires> 'Filemaker developer' takes a filemaker DB (which can be generated from Excel, text, etc.) and automatically converts to XML
<Seanara> Ronnie Bob's been doing a lot for the domain, hasn't he?
<JL`> Nominate him.
<Karen> Ronnie Bob keeps a lot of our databases and does lots of other things.
<Seanara> What might be a suitable award for him, then?
<Kaires> YES! Scanning hundreds of documents
<JL`> Digen
<Midge> Digen?
<JL`> Dedication above and beyond, definitely Meritorious Service.
<Seanara> Digen or Tech-Ton?
<JL`> Digen this year.
<Karen> Yes another Digen...or Tec-Ton... I'm inclined for Digen.
<Midge> That was a suggestion, I wasn't questioning JL.
* Seanara smiles reassuringly. "Digen it is, then."
<Patric> Which is fine Kaires, but how do you relate the XML it produces to the databse structure we maintain on the server?
<Lexie> I still remember the warmth of his "welcome aboard" message, when I first got re-involved here.
* Karen smiles. "He's good at welcoming people. Often I leave it to him, rather than my doing it."
<JL`> Any further awards - it is getting late.
<JL`> We can move on to the Stock awards then party.
<Karen> Might have covered the award winners... I can't think of any others.
<JL`> Voting to close nominations.
<Kaires> Patric, you design the filemaker database with 'reports' that match whatever bizarre formats already exist.
<Karen> I'll send Kaires our logs later, or tomorrow, so Patric can get the password telephoned to her for posting them...
<Kaires> download the existing data into filemaker, then upload the elegantized, merged result.
<JL`> Jean - you ready with the stock awards list?
<Patric> Kaires: Understood. Then how do you marry THAT to a front end so people can add, edit, delete and update dbase content?
<JL`> Jean?
<Kaires> I got a pile of passwords earlier, but only a couple of them seem to work. VTECT is where the chats go, and that isn't one that works
<Karen> No... chats go elsewhere....
<jean> No--they're on the other computer in the other room.
* Patric arches an eyebrow....
<jean> I thought you'd have them.
<JL`> Jean - OK you want me to post the list? Go ahead and write the introduction.
<Kaires> Filemaker is super easy to learn, and what shows up on the web page looks and acts exactly like filemaker
<Karen> was where the chat was last year.
<Kaires> anyone who can access/edit the page (it acts like a form) can work on the database
<Patric> Kaires: Send me a sample page. Doesn't do me any good if it can ONLY be edited in filemaker..
<Kaires> My understanding is that it's actually pure just acts like filemaker.
<Patric> Send me a sample page so I can take a look. :)
<Kaires> that could take a while, alas. I never put filemaker developer on this computer
<Patric> You don't have to send it NOW.. Just whenever you get a chance...
<Kaires> As long as all salaries are virtual, you can double (or dock) them at will.
<Patric> Heh. Just subcontract them all, Jean. Then THEY have to deal with the paperwork...
<Karen> Also, because of the paperwork Jean mentions, most non-profits don't pay anyone who works with them. We're in that same boat right now with, I guess.
<Lexie> As I often say about my volunteer work: "I got a huge percentage raise last year, and the hourly rate is just incredible."
<JL`> Jean will tell me when to post the list of awards.
<Patric> The hours you volunteer, Lexie?
<Lexie> yeah
* Patric showers sawdust on his keyboard from laughing... Tell me about it.
<Midge> Don't play with any matches, Patric, sawdust can be explosive.
<JL`> You may wonder who Lisa Saunders is. She assembles the contents of the monthly Newsletter (which Karen edits and posts) and she keeps track of our advertiser's accounts with us, making sure they get what they pay for.
<Patric> This is actually FOAM dust. It just melts.
<JL`> Doreen Dabinett gets stock for her novel length Sime~Gen stories posted in Companion In Zeor which Karen edits. Substantial fiction contributions like that earn stock.
* Patric points to for examples...
<Midge> And sticks and burns, I'll bet...
<Karen> Are you closing out the business meeting, JL, Jean?
<Patric> Dunno Midge,. Never tried it... I could, I suppose.. But not on my keyboard.
<MTZ> and smokes nasty smoke
<Midge> And puts off toxic vapors...
<Patric> Thanks JL and Jean....
<Karen> Yes... thank you, all.
<Patric> Yes. Cyanide gas when it melts.
<Midge> Thank you all.
<Karen> Cyanide isn't good for your health...
<Patric> Which is why I CUT it with a knife and never use a hot knife...
<Midge> Definitely not, Karen.
<JL`> Entertaining movement to adjourn so we can party.
<Midge> Party!!!
<JL`> Virtual Trin Tea is served in the meeting room. The gavel has FALLEN.
<MTZ> a brand new year to celebrate
<JL`> Absolutely. What are you planning for 2008?
<MTZ> working on promotion mainly
<Midge> I'm working on the Reviews Picks page and the Spring Reviewers and Readers Choice awards.
I'll probably come screaming for more help, Patric...
<MTZ> hope for more science fiction subs
* Patric shudders and rolls his eyes, grinning.
<JL`> Department heads should remember to keep track of who contributes during the year so we can recognize them at the 2009 New Year's Day chat.
<Kaires> Do you ever review books that have been around awhile...or just brand new ones?
<Midge> Roger wilco
<Karen> We usually keep a good record, Jacqueline.
<JL`> I review books in my column that are old, OOP, or now in reprint - e-books too.
<jean> Good idea on subcontracting, Patric. We will probably do that once we have enough income, simply because everyone is spread all over the world.
<Midge> I have a bunch of old ones not reviewed yet. They haven't been chosen. Got anything hot, send it to me and I'll review it myself.
<JL`> Our reviews dept can review older books, but reviewers should check the archives to see how many reviews of the book have been posted before.
<MTZ> but be very careful. IRS rules on independent contractors are really tight
<Lexie> hmm. Me for 2008: Finally getting my mom's house emptied out, so it can be sold. Participating in NaNoWriMo. Finishing my non-fiction albatross so I can work on something fun.
<Kaires> I found an author who writes wonderful stories about people who "don't fit in."
<MTZ> hmm, Midge, would that include stuff like an EPPIE finalist?
<Midge> MTZ, that includes anything you want. I'm easy.
<Seanara> Oh, Jean, I just had a question for you off topic... DCC isn't working for me for some reason.
<jean> Yeah--I accepted your call but it just quit with an error message.
<MTZ> um, don't want to send you 20 plus all at once. my name would be mud!
<Kaires> The first one was about an ancient Egyptian prince who had to save a treasure from being exploited in current times, and the Egyptologist's nerdy daughter who helped him.
<Seanara> Did you get the clipping from the Washington Post I sent you -- the review of the Led Zeppelin reunion concert in London?
<jean> Oh, yes--thank you!
<JL`> Margaret - send us some REVIEWERS and no matter how many titles you send at once, your name won't be mud.
<Seanara> You're welcome. I figured it might interest you if you don't get that paper.
<jean> I'm hoping there will be a DVD of the concert eventually.
* Seanara smiles. "It sounds like it must have been impressive."
<Karen> Jean, I think my cable company has the concert. I can check, and maybe order it and such... would you want me to do that for you?
<Midge> Thank you, JL! Margaret?
<MTZ> JL, I've tried
<jean> The Zeppelin concert in London about three weeks ago?
<JL`> Margaret - do you realize that the reviews department wants to rely on PROFESSIONAL WRITERS to do our reviews?
<jean> I haven't heard of its being available even pay-per-view yet.
<JL`> What we are trying to do is somewhat different from the usual in that all of is a writing school, and /reviews/ is a vital part of a writer's training.
<MTZ> well, define professional writers
<Midge> Our newest reviewer, Karen Webb, is also one of our newest authors.
<Karen> I'll listen more carefully when I hear the cable company promo.
<Midge> She wrote Chalice of Life.
<MTZ> because too many organizations are carefully excluding epublished
<Kaires> Somewhere I have a pair of pictures of Paige & Plant, both with a blue 'nageric' like background.
<JL`> Writers who make the cut for your publishing company should qualify. We look for those who write and sell.
<Kaires> When I saw those, I know why some folk might think they belong in the SG universe
<Midge> I've been adding a plea for reviewers to my reply for every submission I get.
<JL`> Shelly Campbell is the first independent study graduate of THE ESSENCE OF STORY course and I sent her to hone her new skills at Reviews. She's a professional nonfic writer but hasn't yet sold fiction. (will soon, I think)
<MTZ> thinking
<jean> Epublished authors are professionals if they have royalty contracts and the publisher picks and chooses and edits its books.
<Patric> Just don't beg, Midge... :)
<MTZ> which epress does
<Midge> I don't. I'll send you the text I use if you're interested, Patric
<Patric> Laugh. No. I trust you Midge. I was just grinning at "plea"...
<Midge> I've also posted it on my own websites and a few other places.
<JL`> Patric has taken a very active interest in the Reviews department -- and writes a mean business letter. It's a good idea to run text past him.
<Karen> Or you can run it past both of us... Patric's good at his business letters, I agree.
<Patric> Margaret, you do realize that despite resistance, E publishing of any sort will supplant hard copy media.
<Midge> You're hooked, Patric. I'll send you my text after the party.
<JL`> From Karen, that's high praise. She's a prof business letter writer.
* Patric nods. Fair enough, Midge.
<Karen> Actually, trained secretary. Went to school for that some 35 years ago.
<JL`> So as Jean pointed out, our task for this coming year is to increase our revenue base.
<MTZ> not sure of that, Patric. paperbacks never did eliminate hardcover
* Patric notes however that he only gets "mean" when someone tries to steal his bloody domain names....
<Midge> I'll send it to you too, Karen. I'm sure it could probably use a little help.
<JL`> One thing we need to do to accomplish that is boost our traffic back up again.
<Karen> I may go soon, I've been sitting at the computer for four hours now....
<JL`> Any publicity we can get is valuable for that.
<Karen> I always "plug" the domain when I find an opportunity, JL.
<Patric> Those are two versions of the same thing, Margaret. I am talking about completely different medias...
<Midge> JL, I discovered a website called, where you write reviews of new websites you discover. I've "discovered" a few domain pages already...
<MTZ> yep, and each has its own strength. I see both surviving, maybe not quite as they have been
<Kaires> Patric has bloody domain names?
<JL`> I'm pretty much running out of time myself, today. We had a lot of awards nominations -- Anne and I were whooping and cheering through it all.
<Karen> Patric has several domains of his own.
<Kaires> yes, but are they bloody?
<Midge> Karen, can you send me a list?
* Patric mutters at this old version of mIRC...
<Karen> Glad to "see" Anne among us. She's been part of your life for several years longer than I, JL.
Send you a list of what, Midge?
* Karen uses a very old version of mIRC and has no problems with it.
<Lexie> Yes. Hugs to Anne from me, JL.
<JL`> Anne's mother died after a long, slow decline (nearly 90 I think). That was only this summer, and she's been closing the estate and had to move herself. So she finally came to visit Phoenix in winter. Loves the sun.
<Kaires> Several people in the Xenolinguistics workshop at LosCon were interested in our writer's school...especially because I told them its name: Worldcrafters
<jean> Patric, about a month ago Norton suddenly tagged my old version of mIRC as a virus and deleted it!
* Patric utterly hates Norton and Symantec in general...
<JL`> Kaires - we have a writer's school flyer but of course I didn't bring any to Loscon -- didn't know about that panel/workshop.
<Karen> I don't use Norton anymore....
<jean> But when I downloaded and installed the latest version it picked up all my settings--and it works just the same.
<Patric> Yeah. It just deletes the executable....
<Kaires> It wasn't well publicized. there were only four students.
<JL`> I'll take four students over none!
<Karen> Jacqueline: Do ship me a carton of things you want to take to Ecumenicon....
<Patric> And mIRC is clever enough to allow a write-over as an upgrade.
<Kaires> but I got their contact info, and they got mine. We plan to meet up at Westercon.
<JL`> Next week will be the first time I can begin to organize for Ecumenicon. First on my list is the ribbons.
* Karen nods. "Just inform me when you're shipping something so I can watch for it."
<JL`> Oh, Westercon -- OK Kaires, remind me to bring Writing School flyers to Westercon.
<Karen> I'm going to run.... been here four hours.... so will stop our log for the party, here.
<Kaires> BTW, I belong to a timeshare program that has a BIG condo complex in Vegas.
<Karen> Happy Year's Turning everyone. May 2008 be a good one for all.
<JL`> Vegas?
<Patric> Bye Karen!
<JL`> We met some people at LosCon who are starting a con in Vegas.
<jean> bye
<Seanara> Same to you, Karen.
<Karen> Take care, all. I should have the chat logs done for posting tomorrow.
<Seanara> Happy New Year.
<Karen> Bye.
<Kaires> Cloud and I are trying to reserve a couple of condos during the week of Westercon
<JL`> But they wouldn't be near the hotel?
   [additional discussion not saved]
* Disconnected

Session Close: Tue Jan 01 18:30:18 2008 EST

Logs edited by Karen MacLeod

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