Worse Case Scenario

Hi All,

As I was cruisng the s/g list, I suddenly realized why I am, and always
have been uncomfortable with this idea of selyn-powered computers or
selyn-powered anything.

Consider the humble chicken.

There she sits, day in and day out, in a cage that is far too small,
sitting too close to her sisters, with bright lights being on 24 hours a
day. All this done in the name of maximizing her egg production.

What's to stop the same thing from happening to In-Territory Gens?

What's to stop inhumane things being done to Gens in the name of
maximizing their selyn production?

Nola

Jacqueline can give a better explanation of the technical aspects, but my
feeling is that we've got to remember here that Gens _are_ human beings,
and since they are sapient, that good conditions and intellectual
stimulation are going to be essential for high selyn production. It
probably parallels what Fogel and Engerman pointed out in _Time on the
Cross_, refuting the Abolitionists' accusations that Southern plantation
owners were breeding slaves like cattle. Although you get your best
fertility on livestock by deliberate selective breeding, these practices
are self-defeating when applied to humans, at least partly because humans
are self-aware. Human fertility is highest in stable, monogamous pairings,
so masters who wanted to maximize reproduction did well to allow their
slaves to form couples.


"I do believe my crucifiction before the public has about reached its limit."
                                Admiral Husband Edward Kimmel

Leigh Kimmel, Ph.D. student in history, Southern Illinois University

Ever read Octavia Butler's science fiction novel, KINDRED? It's about
what happens when a woman accidentally time travles to Antibellium
South--and she's Black. The book is *quite* an education I can tell you.

Last time I checked:

Blacks are sentient.
Spanish speakers are sentient.
The disabled are sentient.
Gays are sentient.
The retarded are sentient.
Jews are sentient.

But, time and time again I've seen other people forget that "those
people" are sentient.

Since homeo saps do these things in the here and now, why do we assume that
Simes are going to be smarter than the average bear :) that Simes
of the future will remember?

Mind you, I'm *not* saying that it is not possible for Simes to remember
that penned gens are sentient. I just have seen any compelling reasons
*in the books* as to why Simes *remember* that these gens are are sentient.

Nola

Nola writes,
        Blacks are sentient.
        Spanish speakers are sentient.
        The disabled are sentient.
        Gays are sentient.
        The retarded are sentient.
        Jews are sentient.

Dogs, cats, horses, apes, dolphins, etc. are also sentient.  It means
self-aware and capable of feelings (intelligence is sapience).  Yet look
what we do to these creatures.

Simes and Gens are human.  Therefore they are capable of doing anything
humans have ever done, and inventing new refinements.  Slavery still
exists in some places in the world today.  Some owners treat slaves 
"well," just as some owners treat horses well.  And others ignore
the fact that living creatures have feelings, seeing them simply as property
which the owner has the right to treat as he pleases.

However, humans rarely eat horses today, and don't have to eat cows or
pigs or deer or any other animal to survive.  Anyone whose worldview is
that because they are sapient these creatures are our equals and we have
no right to destroy them for nourishment we don't need, can choose to be
a vegetarian and still live a long, healthy life.

Why have so many contributors to this thread apparently forgotten that for 
junct Simes before the days of Rimon Farris, the above situation was simply
 NOT TRUE?  The _only way_ a junct Sime could live was to kill a Gen
every month.  Period.  And death by attrition is not a swift, clean
death.  A philosophical decision to die rather than take another human
life is _not physically possible_.

But junct Simes were ALSO human beings.  They _had_ to dehumanize Gens or
die themselves.  Those who lost the ability to do so died horribly when
they began to abort out of kills.  Such deaths happened all through Sime
history...and probably more among Genfarmers or pen owners than any other
part of the population.  Live with dogs, live with horses, and you know that they 
are sentient beings with feelings.  Live with Gens, raise them, have them
 _talk_ to you....

Think about it.  Simes MUST develop the ability to dehumanize Gens, or
die.  Jacqueline has said this is an insane universe.  Yes, it is.  The
physiological reasons for insanity are built in--if you are not mad, you
don't survive.  Survival of the fittest among Simes means survival of the
least emotionally sensitive or empathic.  Farrises have to have been a
relatively recent mutation when Rimon Farris learned to channel.  If he
hadn't, the strain would have died out.  Other channel mutations
probably did come into existence and die out throughout Sime history
before the days of Rimon.  Until channels learned to channel, their sensitivity
 was an ANTI-survival characteristic.

So please, stop being so surprised at the lack of empathy in your average
junct Sime.  Juncts cannot see Gens as human or even as sapient animals
on a level with dogs and horses and continue to kill them.  And if they
don't kill Gens, they die.  And even after Householdings, and after Unity,
it is very hard to give up what has always been a necessity to survival.  
Jean

A lot of the gens in the pens got there after growing up in Sime families, or
after being captured Wild from Gen Territory.  In either case, they behave
more or less like people, with language and reasoned attempts to escape.  The
gens born in the pens don't behave that way.  They behave at the lowest of
all possible human levels.  All penned gen behavior is evened out by the
constant drugging.

Mary Mendum's latest S~G detective stories (I love her junct private-eye
trainee Eskalee, whom you may have seen us discussing on the List - Eskalee's
Destiny since this is a series of stories she will have a destiny) depict the
attitude of the juncts toward Gens very accurately (to my mind).

LL&P
JL

JL here again - Nola's raised a very good question.  JL

In a message dated 96-09-15 23:56:10 EDT, you write:

>Consider the humble chicken.
>
>There she sits, day in and day out, in a cage that is far too small,
>sitting too close to her sisters, with bright lights being on 24 hours a
>day. All this done in the name of maximizing her egg production.
>
>What's to stop the same thing from happening to In-Territory Gens?
>
>What's to stop inhumane things being done to Gens in the name of
>maximizing their selyn production?
>
>Nola

The answer is nothing at all.  What do you think The Modern Tecton really is?
JL

Folks,

With the exception of a few obviously misplaced "sapients" and
"sentients", Jean's lecture on the necessity of  juncts being able to
dehumanize Gens or die is just about perfect.

The one complication that she didn't mention is that the process couldn't
effectively begin until changeover.  After all, no matter what you're
taught, you can't really think of Gens as animals when you don't have to
kill them yet, and when you know there's one chance in three that you'll
become one yourself--because you know you're sapient.

So part of the First Year adjustment would be overcoming those scruples.

Think about that, Eskalie fans.

Mary Lou