Log of the Chat Room -- New Year's meeting, January 1, 2015.




 Andrea – Andrea Alton

Ed Wilson – Edward Wilson

Kaires – Kaires Tevesu

~JL – Jacqueline Lichtenberg

Jean – Jean Lorrah


KarenMac – Karen MacLeod

Seanara – Seanara Coyote

Sieglinde – Linda Robinett


Lexie -- M. Alexis Pakulak

Zoe Farris – Zoe Farris

Sosu Eliza – Eliza Leahy



‹~JL› Jean - you want to call the biz meeting?

‹Jean› The business meeting is now open in #simegenbiz.

‹~JL› You need to be logged into #simegenbiz so you can vote for any Awards that will be proposed later. Jean - in the biz room, -please?   Folks can chat and cross-chat several conversations in this room.

‹Ed Wilson› There is a small hairless or short hair that was for ladies mufflers.

‹Sieglinde› Some dogs were bred as foot warmers.

‹~JL› Watch #simegenbiz

‹Ed Wilson› There was also a Persian dog, small quiet with a bark the size of greater NYC my English teacher in grade 9 had one.

‹Sieglinde› I am

‹Seanara› Yeah, a friend of mine has two. The one escalates the other, and the minute you get into the house with them they run around and yap as if they were on crack and speed together.

‹Sieglinde› :)

‹Seanara› No Chihuahuas for me, than you very much!

‹KarenMac› My cats are small enough... I wouldn't want a dog that small, and the cats tear through the house enough.

‹~JL› Wildside news going up in biz

‹Sieglinde› Sounds exciting

‹~JL› Jean missed Aharon's post in the Group today. Did I mention, Jean's amazing?  She has the flu, but here she is working.

‹Sieglinde› Graphic novels!!!!!

‹KarenMac› Sorry she has the flu.  I can find and paste Aharon's post somewhere if you want it.

‹~JL› yep!!!  But not first, probably - first game, then graphic novels -- but story-line is set up.

‹Sieglinde› It would maybe be useful in the business meeting?

‹~JL› Wait for my report.

‹SosuEliza›   AHARON'S POST --    Project "Ambrov X" is still alive -- and by the way -- the name has changed to something more commercially acceptable and remember-able. But we are moving toward the adventure game genre with RPG style dialogue (i.e. choices that matter - "branching dialogue"). The scope is much scaled down. Better to start small and work our way to something larger. I am currently working on testing out the tech via a smaller game. We expect to start writing in Mid-2015 (although we have a broad story idea defined) and start sharing art and assets before the end of the year. We are laying low until after the story and game design is finalized. Expect Q3 and Q4 2015 to be when we unveil our deeper plans and work. Thanks for everyone's continued patience!

‹~JL› I'm waiting for Jean to call for the President's Report (that's me, President)  -- Jean's CEO.

‹ZoeFarris› That can be added as his report, when that time comes, if you want. And yes, Karen, if you want to get it then that woudl be great, thanks. thank you.

‹KarenMac› Eliza just put it here, but if you need it again, let me know.  Kaires, you need to type /join #simegenbiz and also /join #simegenchat

‹ZoeFarris› She is already here, but needs to do the same to get into biz

‹kaires› Is biz supposed to be blank?

‹KarenMac› It's not blank.  Try again.

‹Seanara› JL, new book of your stories?! :-) Is it an ebook or a tree book?

‹SosuEliza› type  /join #simegenbiz

‹ZoeFarris› no. leave that room and try again. type /join then a space and then #simegenbiz no capitals

‹KarenMac› Kaires made it into the biz room.  I see Lexie is here... we need to touch base with her later on the anthology edits of her story.

‹ZoeFarris› oh missed that, hi Lexie. And hi to anyone else I missed.

‹SosuEliza› Mary Lou is missing this year?

‹KarenMac› I'll leave that to you, Zoe, or I can also give my two cents.  Mary Lou isn't here that I can tell.

‹ZoeFarris› ok. after the chat I will private message you, Lexie. The business chat I mean

‹Lexie› sure, Zoe

‹SosuEliza› Sime~Gen Fanthology Volume 1?

‹KarenMac› I hate FANTHOLOGY.  I do like Jean's idea of CREATIVITY HAPPENS because that ties in to our domain's main page.

‹Sieglinde› I agree, Creativity Happens when Sime meets Gen.

‹SosuEliza› Creativity happens makes me think it is a reference book for an art or craft

‹KarenMac› I see we have a deadline for the Concordance, Zoe.  We also have to really work on that, then.

‹kaires› "Creativity Happens" should be a subtitle. The title has to include Sime~Gen

‹Lexie› Companions in Sime~Gen vol. 1?

‹SosuEliza› we have to think where people have NOT seen simegen before - therefore the words will mean nothing to them

‹ZoeFarris› let's discus this issue when everyone from biz can join it.

‹SosuEliza› they will not think "creativity happens links to the simegen page"

‹KarenMac› Yes...  Sime~Gen:  Creativity Happens.

‹Sieglinde› :)

‹SosuEliza› depends what you want - to sell books to fans or to get new fans

‹Ed Wilson› Sime~Gen: Creativity is contagious

‹Sieglinde› Hard to figure out.

‹SosuEliza› selling books to fans is preaching to the choir

‹ZoeFarris› Can we hold this topic until after biz chat as it is important to everyone and it will prevent having to scroll back to see what people said. Thank you. Doesn't mean you can talk about other things.

‹kaires› I can move all the relevant comments together in the posted chat. I've done that before when a topic gets discussed several times during the meeting.

‹ZoeFarris› ok, cool,

‹Sieglinde› We have put ideas out, we can reiterate them after the biz meeting.

‹ZoeFarris› but leave any new ideas until everyone is here

‹Sieglinde› I am now in the cannot wait for the Wiki to be published mode. :)

‹SosuEliza› It's getting there

‹kaires› We originally wanted to pattern the Sime~Gen Concordance after the Star Trek Concordance. Have we abandoned that idea?

‹~JL› The Wiki can use artwork (Eliza and others have donated a LOT but there's still lots of plain text that needs decorating.) We will always need artwork - even when LOREFUL has a stable of professional game artists working.  There's never enough visuals.

‹ZoeFarris› I have been using that as a reference. Karen kindly sent me one to look at. How it will finally look depends on what we finally decide.

‹~JL› Oh, @Jean -- please call for Award Nominations -- is that what comes next in biz?

‹SosuEliza› I'd suggest we hold off all conversation in here while they need out attention in biz.

‹kaires› In past years, we've had a CEO report and an operations report.

‹~JL› I don't see @Andrea in this room -- she hasn't seen any of this????

‹ZoeFarris› She was here. Must have fell off

‹KarenMac› We've had tons of false starts on the Concordance over the years, but Zoe and I will really have to hustle if we get it done before May, with a June date announced in the biz chat.

‹SosuEliza› she is in the other room, I've called her again

‹ZoeFarris› thank you.  That is five months, I can't see why it won't be done.

‹kaires› A couple of years also had a convention report. I have one ready if we want it.

‹Seanara› Convention report would be good, I think.

‹Sieglinde› I need a summary of awards. What is yo-yo?

‹~JL› We have the awards on a webpage - @Karen probably knows where

‹KarenMac› I don't see why not, either, but there's a LOT to get organized.  We do have art files set aside, but probably not enough, either...and we'll have to get in touch with Hannah Shapero, again.

‹Sieglinde› I nominate Kaires for her diligence in making sure there is a party at conventions she attends.

‹~JL› Oh, yes we need the con party report!  I got called away by an urgent matter.  Back now.

‹Ed Wilson› Second!

‹~JL› Ed you second and vote in biz window, not here

‹kaires› http://www.simegen.com/sgfandom/awards/

‹~JL› Voting is part of the official record

‹Ed Wilson› Oops

‹~JL› Kaires has given us a presence as many conventions and doing room parties at cons (with all the rules and stuff) is NOT EASY!!!

‹KarenMac› Found it faster than I did, Kaires.

‹Sieglinde› Some of the cons literally made it impossible but parties happened.

‹Seanara› Yes, like Worldcon in London!

‹Sieglinde› I missed the one at London? because it was held in the corner of a huge room and I did not find the corner but it was there.

‹kaires› And there's an update on awards that I did for the chat in 2009. Can't find it online, so I'll post it in pieces here….


 Tech-ton Award, for people who have benefited Sime~Gen fandom by the creation and/or application of new software and on--line tools.


Nager Award given to those who have given emotional support to others, guiding them through rough times or just generally "being there" when needed.


 Out-Territory award. This award is given to those whose non-Simegen related sites bring visitors to the domain.

Karen Award Created in 2002, this award for Creating Foundations is awarded to those individuals or organizations who have helped to create the Sime-Gen fan universe or, who have proven indispensable in growing and maintaining the Simegen domain.


Risa Tigue Gen (and Sime) Re-Use Award --- This award honors Sime/Gen fans who have given their old computer systems to further the cause of other Sime/Gen fans' gaining e-mail and Web access, and also the recipients of those computers for giving e-mail and the Web a game try and, well, for just being themselves



‹Sieglinde› One was held in unused function space in Dublin. Westercon was a real room party. Loreful for Out-territory

‹Seanara› The awards pages definitely need to be updated, as a lot of the recipients in recent years are not listed. ‹ZoeFarris› Nager Award for JL

‹kaires› I have frequently offered to update the page, but I don't have access to that part of the domain.

‹KarenMac› Someone needs to make a nomination in biz then.

‹ZoeFarris› Someone has

‹Sieglinde› Is there a general service to Sime-Gen award?  I just nominated Loreful for Out-Territory. If it has to be a human, I will nominate Aharon.

‹kaires› Westercon was especially cool because the con itself rents the party rooms, and "rents" them out to parties each evening.

‹~JL› @Andrea who might be labeled Guest on this chat-room is one of the contributors to the anthology.  Do we have any others present?

‹Sieglinde› I remember now, it was free, it was good.

‹kaires› They even sent "minions" to help me set up and take down the party.

‹KarenMac› I see...  but Loreful took down their original Ambrov X site just when I needed it for a con... did that bring visitors.  No.

‹~JL› Kaires - your party report should go in BIZ - as soon as Jean calls for it.

‹kaires› The party maven tells me they always do that for parties in Utah. I wish I could get other cons to do that!

‹KarenMac› Lexie has co-authored a story in the anthology.

‹Sieglinde› At least get them to get you timely information would help.

‹~JL› They had to since the approach had to be changed.  Remember Loreful is created by Marketing Experts -- Sime~Gen has never (ever) been presented by Marketing Experts.  I'm not surprised it'll take a few iterations but when they get it right, we will hit a much larger audience because of it.  So the take-down of the sample website is going to be a net-plus for the entire endeavor. @Kaires - can you copy/paste out the bits you've put here and repost them into Biz when Jean calls for it.

‹Sieglinde› The cute side scroller they made will at least lead people to their website which may still have info on Sime~Gen on it. ‹Sieglinde› What is the service award name?  Digen?

‹Jean› We need an agenda! Let's finish awards and then get party reports.

‹~JL› Yes, we need an agenda - but I was too busy and Jean was too sick to make an Agenda this morning.

‹~JL› Jean - we have two Digen nominees seconded.

‹KarenMac› Maybe so, JL, but the con had a room set aside and programming open to discuss the game and there was absolutely nothing to show...which embarrassed me a great deal.

‹Sieglinde› When was that? The comic con?

‹~JL› Looks to me that we have 9 people/personas -- so 5 is a Majority.

‹Sieglinde› I count 11. Unless Jean and JL cannot vote.

‹~JL› Now I see 10, but not 11

‹ZoeFarris› congrats Karen, Kaires

‹Seanara› I think Zoe may have two personas there

‹Lexie› What kind of award can we give Zoe for her work on all these projects?

‹ZoeFarris› yes I do, on ipad AS BACK UP… oops, caps, sorry

‹KarenMac› There is the ARENSTI award for Art if I remember right.

‹Seanara› No problem. Just wanted to clarify re: number of people there for majority.

‹Sieglinde› I assume Farris and ZoeFarris

‹kaires› I was looking for some other award for Zoe, and someone else beat me to the Digen nomination. Muchly deserved!

‹~JL› @Seanara - yes it's hard to count the personas.

‹Lexie› maybe there really are two of her, to get so much done

‹Sieglinde› :)

‹Seanara› LOL, Lexie, well. that's how Farris channels are. :-)

LOL, Lexie, well. that's how Farris channels are. :-)

‹KarenMac› no, Seiglinde, it was 2 days before the Darkover con, and they did have me lined up in programming to speak about the game.  :(

‹Sieglinde› Bummer

‹~JL› I nominated Eliza for the TechTon.   Seconded by Karen

‹Seanara› Didn't we once have an Arensti award for art?

‹~JL› Vote coming up - Eliza for the TechTon for tech-work. Yes, the Arensti is for artwork --

‹KarenMac› **shrug**  wasn't anything I could do about it.

‹~JL› @KarenMac wasn't anything we could do to avoid it!

‹Sieglinde› Just a bad circumstance

‹KarenMac› I should have gone with my instinct and pulled down artwork a few days before the con, but I didn't... at least they could have seen what was there at the time.

‹~JL› Throughout the decades, we have had many *~~~SCREAM~~~* moments!!!  That business with Karen on programming to present what we didn't have was one of the loudest screams.

‹Sieglinde› Did the link to the little demo still exist? Of course if you did not have the means to show it in a room that would not have helped.

‹KarenMac› It sure was.  At least spending months in putting the info in the wiki is a good thing. The demo was gone, too.  The whole site was down, and I had my laptop with me.

‹~JL› The thing is, the professional marketer wanted to make certain that this older version of the Game was NOT SHOWN.  It wasn't about embarrassment, but about the PR rules for timing a debut.

‹Sieglinde› I as not aware of that.

‹Seanara› JL, surely you can vote for yourself!

‹Sieglinde› No rule against it!

‹kaires› Surely you appreciate your own contribution, JL

‹Ed Wilson› In church one no vote kills it - so you can't even vote against yourself - as a contrarian.

‹Seanara› We're not in church here.

‹ZoeFarris› lol

‹~JL› At that point (when Karen was left hanging) there were other plans that MIGHT have launched with a publicity blitz and the interval would have been crucial.  That didn't happen, so the website had to come DOWN.  Nevermind, you folks got to see it -- so wait until you see what comes next.  I think you'll like where Loreful is going because there will be more STORY to it, fewer explosions but each

will have meaning. Meaning of explosions is lost if there isn't enough story to support the MOMENT everything goes boom.

‹kaires› So the autographed Ambrov X bumper stickers are collectors' items!

‹Sieglinde› I have seen some movies where the explosions are the plot. :D

‹~JL› Yes, our publicity materials will definitely become collector's items.

‹Seanara› I think I still have some of the temporary tattoos.

‹~JL› Vote Arensti for Eliza

‹kaires› Aside: I think we should alter the Risa Tigue award, to give it for re-using ANYTHING, not just computers.

‹KarenMac› What do you mean by "anything?"

‹kaires› When someone takes information from olden days in Sime~Gen and puts it to a new use, that should be fodder for a Risa Tigue award.

‹~JL› and BTW now you know why I invented the Arensti and stuffed it into the over-full House of Zeor -- there absolutely MUST be an art-award to make any community viable.

‹KarenMac› It is called the Risa Tigue Re-Use Award

‹Ed Wilson› I'll try for it next year - give the compaqe to Malka

‹KarenMac› Well, the con committee must think I had something of value to offer, because they had me return in November for panels.

‹~JL› YAY - Eliza got the Arensti. You all know Eliza did that image of Zoe with tentacles.

‹Seanara› I don't think I saw that one. Would like to.

‹Sieglinde› Well we have Westercon and Worldcon for parties. I know that Kaires and I are going. Anyone else?

‹Seanara› I'm planning to be at Westercon this year, but not Worldcon.

‹~JL› Jean and I haven't made plans for Worldcon yet.

‹KarenMac› Seanara, its one of the images Zoe uses on Facebook.

‹ZoeFarris› it is my profile pic on facebook, and just about everything else

‹kaires› I have already reserved hotel rooms for both

‹~JL› We'll let you all know on the Group.

‹Seanara› Will take a look, thanks, Karen and Zoe.

‹~JL› I think everyone here is on the FB Group, right?

‹Sieglinde› So have I but I cannot have the party in my room. Kaires, are they on the party floor?

‹Ed Wilson› I'm at worldcon in Spokane driving in so can carry stuff.

‹Lexie› With the price of dialysis outside Canada, I won't be going to many cons any more

‹Seanara› Will take a look, thanks, Karen and Zoe.

‹~JL› I think everyone here is on the FB Group, right?

‹Sieglinde› So have I but I cannot have the party in my room. Kaires, are they on the party floor?

‹Lexie› I very rarely go on Facebook; I hate the thing

‹KarenMac› I sympathize Lexie.  My mobility is almost nothing these days.  If I make ONE con a year, I'm lucky.  Last year I made 2 because Kaires happened to be staying with me and we decided to get to Balticon.

‹~JL› Waiting for Jean to call for the Stock Awards

‹Seanara› I'll be taking Amtrak, so can't bring anything for the party with me either, but I'll be glad to help once there, schedule permitting. Westercon that is.

‹ZoeFarris› Facebook is all in how you use it.

‹~JL› Oh, it didn't come out as a list.

‹Ed Wilson› better than usual when this goes south

‹~JL› Why do you travel by Amtrak?

‹Ed Wilson› Where from?

‹Seanara› Because I hate being sardined in and securitied to a fare-thee-well on airplanes.

‹Sieglinde› Trains are much more pleasant.

‹Seanara› Washington, DC. I get a roomette, which gives me privacy. Even though it's the space of a closet, it's better than flying and you see the countryside.

‹~JL› The stock awards are up -- so Jean can call for the Party Reports. Anyone else have a report to add to the official record?

‹Ed Wilson› Good for long distances planes, but with a 500 km dead zone from where you are, and 1500 if there's two of you.

‹~JL› Kaires, you're up for the party report. Put the party report in #simegenbiz

‹ZoeFarris› you covered the Anthology and Concordance so I don't think I need to say anything

‹~JL› Roomette -- has its own bathroom?

‹Sieglinde› Also many times the train station is accessible by public transit. I will be flying into National when I go to Washington DC because the subway goes there.

‹~JL› Here comes Kaires with the Party report.

‹Seanara› The Viewliners have their own toilets and sinks. Those go mostly to Florida. On the Superliners, the cross-country trains, only the bedrooms have private toilet/shower. For the roomettes, it's communal shower and toilets.

‹Sieglinde› Correction Worldcon is in Spokane, makes a difference in flying there.

‹~JL› I love Kaires Ancient Egyptian Kool-Aid

‹kaires› I also can report on the Starred Cross Jewelry if you want

‹Sieglinde› Kaires, I will try to figure out something to add. Maybe hit a supermarket and get drinks of some sort.

‹Lexie› It's not just the thousand bucks a pop for dialysis; at three per week I could get around that by just flying out for two days.  The killer is that a dialysis patient needs a medical safety net, and with the exemptions for preexisting conditions, American medicine offers none

‹Sieglinde› Emergency rooms are required to treat patients no matter what their status.

‹Ed Wilson› Karies: I have the car and will be in Wed evening can pick up stuff.

‹Sieglinde› But I would not risk it.

‹kaires› Thanks, Ed!

‹~JL› We just might have some flyers with a Game announcement or maybe some artwork by Worldcon - but probably not as I think it's in August (I'm a member; we have room reservations; and I don't recall the exact dates)

‹~JL› Oh, Ed with a car -- SHOPPING!!!

‹kaires› Worldcon is 19-23 Aug

‹Ed Wilson› I can bring Canadian stuff too (no booze).

‹~JL› We should definitely have flyer info for the Anthology (did we settle on a title?) and maybe the Concordance.

‹Sieglinde› I am not in the party hotel because we needed a hotel close to the convention center so I don't know how much help I will be.

‹kaires› Ed, can you get Twiglets in Canada? I LOVE Twiglets!

‹ZoeFarris› JL, people will be talking abotu the titel here after bizchat so I can log it

‹Ed Wilson› I'll check, can bring eat mores (only in Canada).

‹ZoeFarris› JL, people will be talking abotu the titel here after bizchat so I can log it

‹Ed Wilson› I'll check, can bring eat mores (only in Canada).

‹KarenMac› No.... no title yet for the Anthology.... but we can talk about it. I absolutely HATE "fanthology."

‹~JL› @ZoeFarris -- ok, after biz.

‹Sieglinde› I won't bring California wine. Alcohol is a PITA at parties and I have noticed it is never served at SG parties.

‹ZoeFarris› I know Karen, you have let us know that.

‹Ed Wilson› PITA?

‹Sieglinde› Pain in the ass

‹Ed Wilson› The T got me.

‹Sieglinde› Washington is strict about carding for example.

‹~JL› Jean -- are we finished with the biz chat?

‹Lexie› I don't like "fanthology" either; it drives away sales to non-fans

‹Ed Wilson› And this year's worldcon will have a lot of never been at a con befores It is in light territory.

‹~JL› any other department reports?  any questions? It's in NorWest - I hope we're out of there before the collapse.

‹kaires› I could report on the sime~gen jewelry

‹~JL› Kaires - JEWELRY -- good point.  Do that. Where's Jean?

‹Jean› Ok, Kaires--go.

‹~JL› Nobody likes fanthology -- (me either) -- which is why the discussion is still open.

‹Seanara› I think Kaires, Sieglinde and I were the only ones at the Eurocon S~G party in Dublin.

‹~JL› @ZoeFarris -- could you PIN a post with the jewelry links after you take down the chat-post, please?

‹ZoeFarris› yep

‹Sieglinde› I thought there was one other. But we did have a nice conversation. :)

‹Seanara› Might have been. I forget. :-)

‹kaires› Nope. Just the three of us.

‹~JL› Sometimes people just float by the door and peek into a Party -- one year, they actually come in, and then buy all the books right there from B&N or amazon or Kobo or wherever.

‹Ed Wilson› I know we talked in Dublin, don't remember when.

‹kaires› When I report on a party like that, I say it was small but highly enjoyable, and if you missed it, you lose.

‹Seanara› :-)

‹~JL› Too true - small parties are the BEST experiences. We need links to the ETSY store

‹Jean› I don't like Fanthology,either. I still think we should use the S~G motto, Creativity Happens, as the umbrella title, as in Creativity Happens: the First Sime~Gen Fan Anthology.

‹KarenMac› THAT I could get behind, Jean.

‹ZoeFarris› Ahh wait till we are all in to discus this as I want to log it so we can look over the ideas.

‹~JL› I love the concept CREATIVITY HAPPENS as the umbrella title.

‹Sieglinde› Good idea.  The subtitles could be different. As in Creativity Happens: New Sime~Gen fiction

‹Ed Wilson› Leave out Fan, use Guests.

‹~JL› Ed - here's the thing.

‹Ed Wilson› Yes on New SG Fiction

‹~JL› Is Andrea still here?

‹kaires› Final comment on the Eurocon party: the flyers I put up said it would be in room 6, immediately after the Dr. Who premiere...Who wants to schedule something opposite THAT?

‹KarenMac› Not guests... some are professional authors...

‹SosuEliza› why mention fans at all? Sime~Gen Anthology

‹KarenMac› Exactly, Fans shouldn't be mentioned in the title.

‹Jean› Later volumes could indicate themes, Creativity Happens: Fan stories of Simes and Gens in Space, or Creativity Happens: Sime~Gen Fan stories about Family.

‹~JL› Look, I'm putting SOME of these stories on the main, official CHRONOLOGY -- and at least one from the chronology is in the anthology (Marge Robbins)

‹ZoeFarris› ok, go ahead, am logging now

‹Seanara› That's nice and straightforward, Eliza. I like it.

‹Ed Wilson› Sosu - you are right

‹SosuEliza› Fan stories are what you get online for free - you don't pay money for them and these are professional stories, not fan fiction (although they are fan fiction)

‹~JL› I wonder if "fan" isn't what we dislike about fanthology?

‹kaires› Usually when someone talks about fan fiction, at cons or online, they sneer at it.

‹KarenMac› To me fanthology isn't a word.  

‹~JL› So yes, I don't think "fan" means what it used to mean to  current readers.

‹SosuEliza› they are as much fan fiction as First Channel is (hope I'm getting that fact correct)

‹ZoeFarris› I would have thought that now when fan stories are being so widely accepted that it wouldn't matter. It was just an idea

‹SosuEliza› Karen - Fanthology is as much a word as "sime" "gen" and "welcommittee" however, the use of the word "fan" might make people think "unprofessional"

‹~JL› Yes, fanfic it definitely is -- but SOME of our writers (Mary Lou for example) write professional level stuff, and we do plan to bring some of her novels up to the main timeline.

‹kaires› Most people's experience with fan fiction is poorly written, unedited, essentially plotless...

‹KarenMac› Welcommittee has been around at least 35 years.

‹Seanara› A number of authors don't want fans writing in their universe. JL and Jean are a nice exception in that they encourage it.

‹ZoeFarris› and has been around for 50 years I discovered.

‹Sieglinde› I think the fact that the anthology will contain both fanfic and fiction from professionals kicks the word "fan" out.

‹~JL› Andrea Alton has created a whole new venue for story-series with her new story for this anthology.

‹SosuEliza› So Karen, the first 10 years Welcommittee was used it wasn't a word?

‹kaires› New words are being invented all the time. some are a lot more obnoxious than fanthology.

‹KarenMac› **shrug**  but it seems most of us object to FANTHOLOGY (including JL) so we shouldn't use it.

‹~JL› There's very little FAN about this thing, in the sense of fanfic.net type stuff -- and more of a bunch of writers going pro in a series they like.

‹SosuEliza› Fanthology has been used for a few decades now.  But that is neither here nor there. Karen - my point isn't if we should use it or not, but your argument that it isn't a word… it's agreed that we shouldn't use it

‹KarenMac› More importantly, what SHOULD we use?  Suggestions?

‹SosuEliza› But don't use an incorrect reason for not doing so. Sime~Gen Anthology, leave out the "fan" and spell it correctly

‹Sieglinde› A subtitle could say "An Anthology of stories in the Sime~Gen universe by professional authors and fan authors.

‹SosuEliza› no

‹kaires› As far as I know, the first professionally published book of stories by fans was StarTrek: The New Voyages.

‹KarenMac› It still needs something to go with Anthology.  I worked on one romance Anthology which was called Romance at Heart, an Anthology.

‹ZoeFarris› Too long. That sort of thing is in the introduction not as a subtitle

‹Lexie› Why differentiate?  An author is an author

‹SosuEliza› I refuse to be part of a book if I'm going to be in the lesser title of "fan" and people who are self published are called "professional."

‹kaires› Is there something we can choose modeled on that idea?

‹Sieglinde› Lexie has a good point. It is up to the editor to control the quality of the stories.

‹SosuEliza› Sime~Gen Dreams

‹~JL› The stories span the globe -- Zoe has one set in Australia, Mary Lou is exploring the origins of her group in South America, Andrea went for the wild west and the origins of some of her Merryweathers.  This all fleshes out what's going ON everywhere else while the Zeor-history is unfolding.

‹KarenMac› Jean's suggestion works. Anything better, I'm open to ideas.

‹SosuEliza› My objection to Creativity happens is only that, as an outsider, that means "non fiction" to me

‹ZoeFarris› and the authors should not be distinguished as separate. It is just authors who are fans of Sime~Gen.

‹SosuEliza› I'd pick up a book like that in an art supply store, or craft store.

‹KarenMac› A fan author, Lexie, may not write the same quality as a professional.

‹Seanara› I'd think the quality of the story would speak for itself, regardless of who wrote it.

‹SosuEliza› That's not necessarily so, Karen.

‹Jean› When did creativity become the province of non-fiction only?

‹ZoeFarris› Exactly, Seanara.

‹Seanara› After all, a lot of horribly-written stuff is actually in print, and not self-published, either.

‹KarenMac› But all THESE stories will be professional grade by the time we print them.  We had to reject one.

‹Lexie› I think the series title should be Sime~Gen Anthology #whatever and Creativity Happens would be a great title for the first volume

‹SosuEliza› It isn't, Jean however, when you pick up a book the creative part has already happened

‹Jean› But the subtitle (or actually volume title) will make clear that it is fiction.

‹kaires› Many of the fan-written stories in Rimon's Library are professional quality.

‹SosuEliza› while a book about "how to be creative" would have that in the title

‹Ed Wilson› As will the location in the book store.

‹Seanara› Yes, Kaires.

‹~JL› @Eliza You see CREATIVITY HAPPENS as non-fiction? That's fascinating!  Once when I was doing a booksigning for THOSE OF MY BLOOD people kept coming up to me thinking it was genealogy -- and there are genealogy books on Amazon with such titles!!!

‹SosuEliza› I can see that happening

‹kaires› I kind of agree with Eliza. Also, "Creativity Happens" doesn't tell anything about what to expect in the book.

‹~JL› @Kaires - I totally agree.  The writers we have in Rimon's Library have hit pro quality -- the only fan-demarcation on those stories is the lack of introduction to the background that is not in exposition.

‹KarenMac› Creativity can apply to music, art, sculpture... but also to writing.

‹kaires› I'd like to see the title - the main title, of THIS book - be something that actually advertises simegen.

‹ZoeFarris› One of my suggestions was from one of the titles, "More than Meets the eye," which tells people that what they will get is, indeed, more than meets the eye.

‹Lexie› on second thought, CH is a freat slogan for the website, where so much teaching and writing happens; I agree it's off-topic for a book once it's in print

‹~JL› That's why I threw this open to brainstorming -- @Kaires is right, we need something that advertises Sime~Gen.

‹Ed Wilson› Not having read any of the material, but noting comments that all of this happens elsewhere while the Zeor action is in Arkansas would something referring to that be a good idea?

‹~JL› LEXIE!!!

‹KarenMac› Most of the stories, Ed, have no mention of Zeor in them.

‹Jean› The trouble with using a story title is that it doesn't say Sime~Gen or even science fiction. More than Meets the Eye could be anything.

‹~JL› @Ed Wilson - that's what I was getting at -- many of these stories explore "meanwhile, back at the ranch" issues and deepen the backgrounding.

‹SosuEliza› "The exploding Sime~Gen universe" LOL

‹Ed Wilson› Of course, but they are "Contemporaneous" with them and as far as Zeor or the story are concerned in a different universe, but they are at the same time on the same world.

‹~JL› Well, these stories range up and down the timeline but most are very early.

‹KarenMac› A few good title suggestions we can choose from...

‹~JL› As Jean noted before, eventually we may do anthologies based on segments of the timeline.  We only rented out 150 of our 2,000 year span.

‹SosuEliza› "up the Sime~Gen timeline with rod and tackle"

‹ZoeFarris› And this is partly due to the space age being set aside for Loreful, so people are exploring other areas around the times before and during Householdings.

‹KarenMac› More than meets the eye doesn't work, either.... even though it is a story title.

‹~JL› Oddly enough, these stories cluster early in the timeline.  One of the polish-chores is identifying the chronology point where the story belongs.

‹Lexie› "Hand to Tentacle"?  That would be for this one, that doesn't have a focused theme like the later ones might

‹SosuEliza› unfortunately with all the tentacle porn online...

‹Ed Wilson› Or is that "Hard to Tentacle"?

‹SosuEliza› LOL

‹Seanara› LOL

‹Lexie› argh

‹ZoeFarris› if that doesn't work either, then does that mean it has to be something sime~gen that anyone can identify with? Because only fans will get Creativity Happens as well.

‹Ed Wilson› Oops. Didn't know that one existed.

‹~JL› @Lexie - keep brainstorming.  That's what I wanted to see -- off-the-wall suggestions. Take it and run with it.

‹Ed Wilson› The Tentacle Frontier?

‹KarenMac› Unfortunately, could tentacle turn off people who know nothing about S~G

‹ZoeFarris› yes, JL is right, nothing that is posted here is dismissed until the team has a look through l the ideas and see what gels with us.

‹SosuEliza› Umbrella title "Sime~Gen Anthology"  This issue (1) "When Simes and Gens meet"

‹Lexie› "Learning to Trust"?  hits the whole Intimate Adventure angle

‹KarenMac› We need to reach NEW people, not just existing fen... so the title may make someone read the cover blurb and then buy the book.

‹~JL› Zeor is a nonsense word -- but House of is quite clear (though misleading because not all members are genetically related).  The next title was UNTO ZEOR, FOREVER, where those who had read the first book would see that ZEOR and make the association -- and the phrase UNTO ZEOR, FOREVER would have deeper meaning to those who remember the book.


‹SosuEliza› I bought that book because "Unto Zeor."  Then I looked at the cover - and bought it anyway

‹ZoeFarris› Maybe not, as I don't think these stories are about the Tecton

‹SosuEliza› the stories don't deal with the origins of the Tecton

‹~JL› Maybe we can get cover art that you won't have to rip off before reading.

‹SosuEliza› some don't deal with the Tecton. lol

‹Ed Wilson› Thinking in terms of our history to 2015 and guessing by the descriptions to date we are infact in the late Medieval period so that is where the "House of " comes from. "Distant Houses of Sime~Gen." Sime~Gen Far Off.

‹SosuEliza› book titles don't have to do with what's inside exactly

‹ZoeFarris› again, not all deal with Householdings

‹~JL› @Eliza - very true these stories aren't dealing with the Tecton which is a lesson in anthology creation -- give it a title and a theme before asking for submissions.

‹Seanara› From the Kill to Compassion?

‹Ed Wilson› Yes! Or just From the Kill.

‹SosuEliza› next time JL - this one was a bit of a surprise

‹Seanara› That just might work, Ed!

‹~JL› But you do see what I'm getting at here?  Pick an element unique to this book, and couple it to something more general but interesting.  "Zombies of the Tecton" might sell.

‹SosuEliza› LOL

‹Seanara› But then you'd get a lot of horror fans who aren't interested in the Intimate Adventure part of it.

‹Lexie› Ack, JL!

‹SosuEliza› that's the guys in the suits that do the paperwork, right?

‹Ed Wilson› Good title (Not Zombies please), From the Kill also gets MYSTERY onto the cover~

‹KarenMac› Which makes me think of Leonard Nimoy's 62 year old movie --- "Zombies of the Stratosphere."

‹ZoeFarris› What many of you don't know yet is what these stories are about, so while these ideas a good, we may not be able to use them this time around, but keep thinking.

‹SosuEliza› I don't mind "From the Kill," might make people curious and the Kill certainly features

‹~JL› Oh, love it @Eliza -- SUITS OF THE TECTON -- all the Tarot fans would buy it.

‹Lexie› could attract more the murder-mystery reader, though

‹KarenMac› Kill can also be misleading in mystery or police fiction...none of which is in the book.

‹Ed Wilson› So it won't be filed in the Mystery section.

‹Lexie› From the Kill, I mean

‹SosuEliza› hey that wasn't an idea - that was just a comment on Zombies of the Tecton :)

‹ZoeFarris› lol

‹SosuEliza› Kill isn't in the book?  Are we reading the same book?

‹KarenMac› :)

‹Ed Wilson› Try other small words like For with "The Kill"

‹~JL› Or our tag: Lack of Compassion is a Capital Offense

‹ZoeFarris› that comment was meant for general titles, like Tecton etc. Kill is in there.

‹Lexie› "Not for the Kill"?

‹~JL› Trautholo Master -- see as a theme that could generate a lot of fanfic.

‹SosuEliza› "Not for the Kill" is good

‹KarenMac› What tag is that, JL... might have missed that one.

‹SosuEliza› "A little light reading before bedtime - KILL THE GEN!"

‹~JL› I was using that tag in my sig file for a while.

‹ZoeFarris› if you want JL for the next one we can set a theme and then ask for submissions. Depends on what area people like to write in.

‹SosuEliza› To kill or not to kill, that is the question.

‹Ed Wilson› Gen Kill…  Kill Gently

‹SosuEliza› LOL  yeah

‹~JL› The Secret Boards

‹KarenMac› Don't remember any Gens dying in the stories, either.  But.....

‹ZoeFarris› lol

‹SosuEliza› errr, the secret pens?

‹Ed Wilson› Less than Slaves

‹SosuEliza› not all are written before the Tecton.  Talking about the secret pens - they are up for renewal, anyone want to help me pay for them?

‹Ed Wilson› Infamous Acts

‹~JL› Yes @KarenMac -- there really isn't any Kill featured in these stories (BTW folks, I LOVE this set of stories -- some classics from Rimon's Library and some new material, actually lots of new material).  Its good reading.

‹KarenMac› Eliza:   A little light reading:  Kill the Gen   (a variant on what you said.)

‹SosuEliza› Karen - read "A short life."

‹ZoeFarris› Some of these suggestions would make great story titles as well

18:13:47 ‹SosuEliza› Karen, that would need Wagner behind it and Elma Fudd...

‹SosuEliza› (as per Killing da rabbit)

‹~JL› @SosuEliza - I'd expect Jean would agree if you wanted to move the Secret Pens into Rimon's Library -- or like Bev's Co-op fiction, as a top level folder.

‹Lexie› let's get away from the word "kill"


‹KarenMac› Secret Boards wouldn't work...  nothing with a tie in to PERSONAL RECOGNIZANCE.

‹Lexie› good one, JL

‹SosuEliza› I'd need access to the scripts to upload the php (I think, I can't remember if it was php or not)

‹Ed Wilson› Any of these stories about contact of groups or peaceful contact for the first time?

‹SosuEliza› I just don't want to lose the stories.  Yes, Ed

‹kaires› Sorry to have missed a lot of this. I was on the phone with Cloud's brother. Somewhere way back, "Suits of the Tecton" came up. I realize it was not a totally serious suggestion, but...Won't work. Most people will think of 'Mad Men' long before Tarot.

‹SosuEliza› Also, the people who wrote for the secret pens might not appreciate them going back on the main domain.

‹ZoeFarris› Team: I will compile the list of suggestions and e-mail them to you

‹~JL› @SosuEliza we can get you whatever logon access you'd need.  We have the space and bandwidth not being used.

‹Ed Wilson› Age of Exploration, The Wanderer

‹KarenMac› There's nothing TECTON in the stories that I can connect it to.

‹SosuEliza› Karen, read "Obsession"

‹~JL› SUITS OF THE TECTON -- I was thinking of Mozzie in WHITE COLLAR calling the Fed "The Suit."

‹Lexie› "Of Sime and Gen"

‹ZoeFarris› like that Lexie

‹SosuEliza› lol, it even rhymes :) "Forget the mice and men, read Of Sime and Gen"

‹~JL› yes, these stories are mostly pre-modern-Tecton, but there are Householdings, and they all belong to the Tecton of their time.

‹ZoeFarris› lol

‹SosuEliza› "Obsession" is about the same time as House of Zeor but if it's too late in the timeline we can leave it out

‹ZoeFarris› Lexie I am trying to Private Message you but ti is not working, can you click on my name and then click where it says Private Message.

‹~JL› House of Zeor is pre-modern-Tecton -- before UNITY creates the Monster.

‹KarenMac› I did read Obsession... but not much else seems Tecton themed in the anthology.

‹Ed Wilson› Dancers in the Mists of Time

‹KarenMac› Still.... we have some interesting ideas here.

‹ZoeFarris› Yes, and many that would suit a story

‹Ed Wilson› Future King Arthurs

‹KarenMac› hmmm... "outside the walls of Zeor" has possibilities....

‹Ed Wilson› No Humans only Simes And Gens

‹~JL› @sosuEliza - or you could retain the domain secret pens and simegen.com can HOST it so your URLs stay the same.

‹SosuEliza› der - I meant "same time as "Unto Zeor." Digen's time

‹Ed Wilson› Out of the world of woe

‹SosuEliza› ok JL that would work - but I need to do it in the next week, is that going to be a problem?

‹Ed Wilson› 1000 years after the apocalypse

‹Lexie› Zoe, I opened the PM; can you see it?

‹SosuEliza› if it's a problem I'll just renew it, and work on it for next year

‹ZoeFarris› yes

‹Ed Wilson› Again Agecourt

‹~JL› @Eliza - well, always assuming I can remember how to set up a hosting of a new domain -- and allowing for our time-difference and wake-cycle -- I can dedicate time to hosting a new domain this week (I consider this kind of tech work cruel-and-unusual-punishment and it leaves me brain-pulverized, but I do it).

‹Ed Wilson› 1425 Again

‹~JL› @Ed Wilson - more like 1755. Some of the stories more like 1855. @Ed Wilson is on a roll, here.  I like these titles. These titles just don't FIT this anthology.

‹KarenMac› No, they don't.

‹~JL› Most of them are ones I'd read at least the blurb for. The "revisited" concept has been over-used for this kind of story collection.

‹SosuEliza› JL you might not have seen it, or you might prefer someone else, but when you asked for a sys admin I offered

‹KarenMac› Someone can send me a list of possibilities.  I should go put my feet up soon.... been sitting here for about 5 hours total.

‹SosuEliza› Sime~Gen, Now and Again,  Sime~Gen, Near and Far,  Sime~Gen, Fear and Courage,

Sime~Gen, Hate to Love

‹~JL› I've been at this desk nearly 7 hours, almost without a break, but that's my usual workday.  I did a blog entry this morning, then got a blizzard of communications which I reported on in the biz chat updating Loreful, the Audible project, and the anthology and concordance projects. BTW I'm assuming the Concordance will be called The Sime~Gen Concordance -- what's the byline?  By Various?

‹ZoeFarris› Karen, I said I would compile a list and send it to the team, i think you missed it

‹SosuEliza› I got up, fed the ducks, fed the chickens, debugged my computer, added chords to a composition, and haven't had breakfast yet

‹~JL› @Eliza -- love FEAR AND COURAGE.

‹kaires› @JL - you beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing.

‹~JL› I think you may have titled this sucker.

‹ZoeFarris› Yes, I like that a lot.

‹KarenMac› I thought the anthology would be titled similarly to what you did with the Vampire Anthology....  Sime~Gen Anthology, whatever title we come up with, with the two editors credited.

‹~JL› Or maybe that's the envelope title TALES OF FEAR AND COURAGE?

‹KarenMac› Interesting.... I like that.

‹SosuEliza› I thought the envelope was Sime~Gen Anthologies. Sime~Gen Anthology #1 -- FEAR AND COURAGE.

‹~JL› That's good. Where's Jean?

‹KarenMac› Yes.... Good idea JL

‹SosuEliza› in bed if she is sensible...

‹~JL› If she fell asleep, Jean needs it.

‹Seanara› Hope she will be well again soon.

‹ZoeFarris› That title has a good ring to it.

‹~JL› OK, maybe that's a wrap - compile the title suggestions and highlight FEAR AND COURAGE and lets see where we go from there.

‹Jean› I've been watching the lines come up on screen.

‹KarenMac› I'd go with it.

‹Lexie› gotta go; will stay logged on

‹Seanara› And I must confess that at first I thought JL was saying ""Love, fear and courage." I liked that title.

‹~JL› @Jean what do you think of FEAR AND COURAGE?

‹KarenMac› Probably will be Sime~Gen Anthology #1 -- FEAR AND COURAGE.

‹Jean› Sounds good.

‹KarenMac› Love, fear and courage also fits.  D.H. Aire's story includes a love under current.

‹Ed Wilson› There is a theological paradox, the opposite of love is fear, the opposite of hate is courage.

‹kaires› There is a book called "Fear and Courage." Non-fiction, psychology...not a conflict

‹~JL› Well, someone make a note Eliza gets another award next year for that one, even if it doesn't get used.  It got more YES votes than our other brainstorming -- but I love @Ed Wilson's line of thought.  We should save those titles -- we'll do a more deliberate compilation around a theme or historical interval at another time.

‹Ed Wilson› It's hard when you're guessing without having seen anything on the title.

‹~JL› @Kaires - that's OK if there's nonfic books with same title, because we have the tag SIME~GEN ANTHOLOGY 1 - FEAR AND COURAGE

‹Ed Wilson› An anthology about S-G in its 1415 - 1433 equivalent period (Agincourt through the burning of the Chinese fleet) would be interesting (It fits the Chinese Curse).

‹~JL› @Ed Wilson -- editorial boards mostly people who have not read the book pick a title they can market without regard to the content.  Not often, but it happens.

‹KarenMac› I once edited a book for NBI that had the exact same title as 5 others found on Amazon.

‹Ed Wilson› @JL I agree, my suggestion was common topic NOT title.

‹~JL› @KarenMac true - you can't copyright a title, and the distinguishing mark should be the byline, but that doesn't always work either.

‹KarenMac› Yes, I remember the discussion we had about titles years ago.  It was from about 1980 and is on the CZ page.

‹~JL› OK, folks, it's late for all of us.  We have to nail this one down and continue next year.  HAPPY NEW YEAR 2015

‹kaires› "pick a title they can market without regard to the content" reminds me of a couple of other instances: The cover of one of the SG books had a scantily clad female being mauled by an octopus

‹Ed Wilson› See you somewhere Love Ed

‹ZoeFarris› my private messages are not connecting, JL could you PM me

‹kaires› They had the cover and saw a way to use it.

‹KarenMac› I'll sign off here, Happy New Year, all.  Jean, get well soon.  Looks like we have an anthology title.

‹kaires› Another was "Curse of the Cat Woman" a movie about the ghost of a young woman helping a little girl to find her self-esteem. Nary a cat in sight

‹Seanara› Happy New Year, everyone. Hope to see some of you at Westercon.

‹Ed Wilson› Don't expect to make Westercon often - Usually at beach.

‹~JL› @Zoe did you see me PM you just now?

‹ZoeFarris› yep

‹SosuEliza› Kaires "the woman with three arms" not the title of the book but the artwork on the front was a romantic picture of a man holding a woman... and the artist somehow forgot and gave her three arms went to best seller - but no one remembers the real title ;) https://p.gr-assets.com/540x54...191.jpg

‹kaires› SosuEliza, LOVE IT!

‹SosuEliza› sort of like Klyd having 6 handling tentacles in House of Zeor (I think that's the one)

‹~JL› Looks like they asked for an edit at the last minute then had to use what was sent in to make deadline.

‹SosuEliza› the artist drew two different arm positions - went with one, forgot that he was holding her hand, so had to put a hand there, forgot to remove the other one made the woman a fortune ;)

‹kaires› There were also the terrible covers that showed Klyd & Hugh as un-ripened pod people.

‹SosuEliza› LOL

‹ZoeFarris› lol

‹~JL› @ZoeFarris - I'm not getting PM's from you. If you need me, Facebook Message me when you get a chance.  Take a nap today if you can - we rousted you out too early.  I'm going to go get dinner on the table.

‹ZoeFarris› And Susie in Channel's Destiny with tentacles on her ankles

‹SosuEliza› JL it says that we are trying to connect with someone who isn't in the chat - could be the ~ in front of your name.  I suggest going to Facebook for this

‹~JL› Oh, yeah the famous ankles -- and it was GREAT cover art, too!  Really lovely -- and a detail makes it a groaner.

‹Jean› Good night everyone. Thanks for coming.

‹kaires› Susie didn't have to bend down to tie her shoes. She let her ankle tentacles do that.

‹SosuEliza› night Jean, look after yourself

‹~JL› Yes, Facebook me as needed.  THANK YOU FOR COMING -- and thanks for the brainstorming session.

‹kaires› Happy Central New Year (Years Turning was 10 days ago, and Twelfth Night is coming up.)

‹SosuEliza› I'm heading off, I should do something about food.

‹kaires› Everyone be well and prosper.

‹SosuEliza› you, too

‹~JL› The stock letters will go out probably Monday, domain hosting chores notwithstanding. BYE

‹ZoeFarris› ok, Facebooked. Yes, thank you all for coming. I think this has been the busiest in a while. lol Kaires, re Susie and her shoelaces